Page 3 of 3 [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

30 Mar 2010, 10:01 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
... you've yet to determine how or why people have those beliefs.

leejosepho wrote:
The "how" is simply because we are capable of having them,

Master_Pedant wrote:
That's a tautological non-explanation.


I was going on the assumption we all understand we each have the ability to think, but maybe you are asking how it is we can do that? If so, I would avoid speculation there and simply suggest a common awareness of our ability to think as a reasonable starting point.

Master_Pedant wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
and the "why" is because we have instincts and desires to be met and satisfied.

Master_Pedant wrote:
Getting there, but still a bit too generic.


While having an ability to think and finding it impossible to not do so, and while having at least some instincts and desires in need of being met and satisfied from outside of oneself, we form or embrace beliefs (and take action) as required to alleviate our fears of not having those instincts and desires met and satisfied.

So again: The "how" is present because of simple ability, and the "why" is driven by inherent needs and desires.

As poorly as I might do in this kind of discussion, I nevertheless participate because I am inherently able to think at least a bit and because I believe doing so (participating) might at least be somewhat beneficial to someone ... and that belief has now been proved true by my finding it necessary to go find and learn the meaning of "tautological".

But if you yet find my words lacking, I will, and for those same reasons, to keep trying to add at least something here.


Oh my figurative god, you're not a Cartesian dualist or New Mysterian, are you?



Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

30 Mar 2010, 11:53 pm

Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I do find the notion that far-leftists and far-rightists tend to have higher IQ's than centrists interesting. IQ isn't rationality, but centrism has always seemed to me to be a horribly cliche position many take just because they believe that the "golden mean" is an absolute.

People with higher IQ are probably more likely to question received belief, and thus to examine fringe ideologies. Of course, the fact that IQ does not correlate with rationality means that profoundly absurd fringe views do sometimes take root in very intelligent people.

To me, one of the strongest arguments for centrism is that it avoids alienating too much of the population and causing civil strife, the way more extreme ideologies would. In this case the golden mean is sometimes a good idea just to avoid pissing people off too badly.


I've just found out that somebody (Albert Breton, to be specific) has published a book arguing that extremism and rationality may be compatible (at least "rationality" in an economistic sense).

http://www.amazon.com/Political-Extremi ... 0521804418



leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

31 Mar 2010, 6:13 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Oh my figurative god, you're not a Cartesian dualist or New Mysterian, are you?


I have never heard of either, and I sense no instinct or desire to find out what those are!


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

31 Mar 2010, 12:04 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Oh my figurative god, you're not a Cartesian dualist or New Mysterian, are you?

Most people are. Many are Cartesian dualists. The ones who aren't tend to be New Mysterian.



Master_Pedant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,903

31 Mar 2010, 12:23 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Oh my figurative god, you're not a Cartesian dualist or New Mysterian, are you?

Most people are. Many are Cartesian dualists. The ones who aren't tend to be New Mysterian.


I suppose I'm quite heterodox, then. I've fully internalized physicalist thinking (well, at least Cartesian materialism) since I was in the 7th Grade and commonly think of my thinking in terms of mental films of neurons firing and reconnecting.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

31 Mar 2010, 1:40 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
I suppose I'm quite heterodox, then. I've fully internalized physicalist thinking (well, at least Cartesian materialism) since I was in the 7th Grade and commonly think of my thinking in terms of mental films of neurons firing and reconnecting.

Well, obviously. Only eliminative materialists reduce mind so much.



codarac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 780
Location: UK

07 Apr 2010, 4:56 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
I do find the notion that far-leftists and far-rightists tend to have higher IQ's than centrists interesting. IQ isn't rationality, but centrism has always seemed to me to be a horribly cliche position many take just because they believe that the "golden mean" is an absolute.

People with higher IQ are probably more likely to question received belief, and thus to examine fringe ideologies. Of course, the fact that IQ does not correlate with rationality means that profoundly absurd fringe views do sometimes take root in very intelligent people.

To me, one of the strongest arguments for centrism is that it avoids alienating too much of the population and causing civil strife, the way more extreme ideologies would. In this case the golden mean is sometimes a good idea just to avoid pissing people off too badly.


I've just found out that somebody (Albert Breton, to be specific) has published a book arguing that extremism and rationality may be compatible (at least "rationality" in an economistic sense).

http://www.amazon.com/Political-Extremi ... 0521804418


What is considered mainstream and what is considered extreme varies according to time and place. Views that were considered mainstream in one place just 50 years ago might be considered extreme in that place in the 21st century, and views that are considered mainstream in that place in the 21st century might have been considered extreme in that place just 50 years ago.
Of course, it is more comforting to adopt the mainstream views of one's contemporaries, because it's more comforting to believe one's society is generally progressing towards a higher state of enlightenment than it is to believe it is heading in the opposite direction.