The Bahá'í Faith

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Have you ever looked deeply into the Bahá'í faith? I'm sure many of you have heard about it, some of you have asked me about it. I've created a thread here to start a friendly discussion on it. I'll summarise the principles below. Please feel free to ask any questions you might have.



The Bahá'í principles are -

Unity of God - God is single, with no partners, and unknowable in his essence. Human beings cannot know the nature of God, like how a table can never understand the nature of its carpenter.

Unity of Religion - All major religions come from the same source, and are revealed in a specific age and for the social situation prevalent in that period of time. Revelation of religion is like the rain - fresh rain provides fresh drinking water, while stagnant rain does not provide the same healthy benefits as fresh water does. In fact, it can even be injurious to health. Bahá'ís strive for unity among all religions (and non-religious folk alike). We respect all religions.

Religion is revealed by manifestations of God. Manifestations of God are like pure mirrors, reflecting the rays of sunlight to the world. Just like how we are unable to enter the sun (without getting fried in a second), the manifestations are clear connections to God transferring revelation to mankind. Manifestations include: Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Confucius, Krishna, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh.

Unity of Mankind - Human beings are the branches of one tree. Human beings are spiritually united, and we seek to eliminate prejudices on race, religion, gender, etc.

Equality of Men and Women - We believe that priority should be given to women's education, and that more women should administer the state.

Harmony of Science and Religion - We believe that science without spirituality brings death and destruction, while religion without science brings ignorance and superstition. We don't take Biblical stories (such as Adam and Eve) literally.

World peace - The Bahá'í faith has world peace as a major goal. The Bahá'í faith prescribes a unique form of collective security which will prevent any nation from going to war, as all other nations will attack the aggressor.

Independent investigation of the truth - No human being can have religion (or the lack of it) imposed on them by force. Every human being should independently investigate the Bahá'í faith on their own. Bahá'ís must be 15 years of age to become members, and their parents must encourage them to research the religion (and others) independently.

Universal compulsory education - Education is a very important theme in the Baha'i writings, and the key to escaping from ignorance and superstition. The more educated society is, the closer the possibility of world unity and harmony.

Universal auxiliary language - The Bahá'í faith recommends that a single language should be chosen (or invented) to be taught as a secondary language in schools worldwide, to allow international communication.

Obedience to government - The Bahá'í faith encourages peaceful means to achieving human rights, justice, and freedom of speech. It also forbids its followers from opposing the state, as it is contrary to world unity.

Non-involvement in partisan politics - Partisan politics is forbidden (voting is strong encouraged in secret). Bahá'ís have their own system of administration, where there is no campaigning for elected posts (we have no priesthood). Bahá'í administration will replace current forms of administration in the future.

Elimination of the extremes of wealth and poverty - The Bahá'í economic system is based on worker cooperative societies, while allowing free market economies and capitalism. The extremes of wealth and poverty are both counter-productive and dangerous to mankind.

[url=http://bahaikipedia.org/Bahá’í_Faith#History]To know the history of the Bahá'í faith, please click here.[/url]

Looking forward to your queries.

Surely then the Baha'i would hold that older religions revealed in a different age (Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc) are no longer beneficial and are in fact detrimental, and thus must be opposed? Do Baha'is claim that they have the final revelation, or do they anticipate another revelation coming in the future? If so, how are to recognize it? If they claim they are the last revelation, do they have any better evidence for this claim than Mohammed did?


Well isn't that nice. What if there is a disagreement as to who the aggressor is? Can you tell me who the clear aggressor was in all the major wars of the 20th century?


Sounds good, but how is this to be accomplished?


Definitely in favor. Something like Esperanto would be relatively easy to learn and reasonably functional as a secondary language.


Even if the state is acting unjustly? The Baha'i would condemn Thoreau, Gandhi, and MLK for their civil disobedience?


More details please? Without some form of politics (which necessitates campaigning), you don't have democracy, but you indicated that there would be voting, implying a democratic system. What is this Baha'i system of administration?


I am skeptical whether this proposed economic system is actually fleshed out in any detail.

My first encounter with the Baha'i faith was some web quiz that claimed I already was Baha'i. I found their claims to be far too vague and woolly to be worth much consideration, and left the site frustrated that they seemed unwilling to provide concrete specifics.

Hi Orwell - Not an argument thread. Arguments on religion are pointless. My thread is purely for queries. To answer your questions in the best manner I can -

We don't oppose any other religion. We strive for unity. When we compare to stagnant water - we assert that the unity and spirituality prominant in those religions during their infancy is extinct. We believe another religion will be revealed 1000 years after Baha'u'llah declared he's the promised on of all ages. Recognition is up to the individual.



No comment. We're not political. The precise application of collective security will be decided by the Universal House of Justice in the future, not me.



Progress of the soul. Spiral dynamics in psychological terms.



We don't condemn those individuals. That law doesn't apply to non-Bahá'ís. We don't fight against the state if it oppresses us, however, we try to protect individuals who are oppressed in the best manner we can. We always follow whatever the Universal House of Justice directs us to do. We are free to criticise and condemn human rights violations and peacefully oppose them.The method is left to the individual, provided it does not cause harm. We are law-abiding citizens.



In Bahá'í elections, we write down the names of 9 individuals (of our choosing) on a piece of paper, and submit it in secret. 9 (or more, if necessary according to population) individuals are elected. This is the basis for Baha'i elections. We cannot tell anybody who we are voting for. The guardian, Shoghi Effendi, laid down many guidelines for us to follow in elections, and these guideline are always read out by someone prior to voting.

The Baha'i Spiritual Assemblies are a combination of legislature and judiciary. For now, they legislate only on Baha'i matters. We have Local Spiritual Assemblies at the municipal level, State councils (in some countries with large Baha'i populations such as India and Malaysia), National Spiritual Assemblies, and the Universal House of Justice at the international level.



I'm afraid I haven't dug too deep into the economic aspect. One of my friends, however, has. You may freely contact him on Facebook if you wish to do so, he will gladly answer your queries.

So at least the Baha'i are consistent in that respect (expecting another revelation to replace it eventually). In the attempt at unity, how are the incompatibilities of different faiths reconciled? Is there any attempt to explain the observation that some of today's major religions did not display "unity and spirituality" in their infancy?


OK, but to me that just sounds like "we'll figure it out later" which isn't exactly an encouraging approach to international relations. And if the Baha'i promote certain policies (as they seem to, eg education, non-discrimination, etc) they must necessarily be political.


OK, but there would be candidates who declared an interest in being elected, or some form of campaigning before people choose their 9 votes. I don't understand how you propose to have an apolitical democracy.

In areas where there is hostility against the faith, there is little we can do. In other countries, we try to unite by participating in dialogues that promote oneness. We discuss similarities and work together at preventing misunderstandings.

The social situation was different back when other religions were revealed. NOW is the time for total love and harmony.



To be clear - we are a spiritual organisation until the Baha'i state is established. The Universal House of Justice is a busy body, and we don't waste our time (and theirs) asking frivolous questions. We are free to have our personal interpretations of international relations, but can't enforce it on others. The Universal House of Justice will engage as a mediator and judge on international relations after the first Baha'i state will be established.

Baha'is, as individuals, are concerned about politics. We are just not partisan.



Nope. We consider it a blessed duty to serve in spiritual assemblies. If a certain individual elected can't (due to health reasons, work, etc), he/she can resign and a bi-election takes place for that seat. For example, my close friend was elected to the Local Spiritual Assembly. He resigned as he had to move to another city for 5 months of work. In April, he was elected once again and continues to serve in the LSA with utmost steadfastness.

A person who shows interest in being elected, and doesn't hesitate to display his desire, is disqualified from being elected. If he persists, the LSA might even revoke his voting rights. We are strictly non-partisan.

What do they intend to do when other states oppose the first Baha'i state's attempt to act in that role?


I see. So the system would be that within the Baha'i community, people vote for people who they know and think would be suited to the task.

Unfortunately, I don't see how such a system would scale up past a group of a few hundred people.

If their teachings contradict one another, and God is inherently otherwise unknowable, which prophets words do you follow?


Is this regardless of the skill of the politician? I believe those most suited to a job should be given it, irrespective of gender. Priority given to women's education? So not equality? Is this sexist?

I would again say philosophy, and in that sense would agree, knowledge without ethics usually leads to bad.


The UN? Do you mean making a new one or are you in agreement about the current (expanding to take in new nations) system?


English already does this. English may evolve over time, and has local dialects (link). This won't change, as it works. Is this what is supported, or esperanto?


This appears to contradict itself. Peaceful means to achieving human rights, justice, and freedom of speech against a state is still opposing it. Does this in fact mean not using militant means instead?

This looks like another contradiction of itself. Bahá'í administration will replace current forms of administration in the future, yet not get involved in politics, which is administration. They appear to want to make a state of their own system by their rules, is this not partisan?

What does the Bahá'í system prescribe for the 3rd world? Bear in mind their exploitation drives the system we have in the first world.

The Baha'i appear to want a state of their own, how and where is this to be established? (if it is planned)

If the Baha'i state was established, does it have directions on how it's military behaves, or is that a matter for the elected?

No, have not looked deeply into Bahai but I find the pictures of the Bahai Terraces in Israel to be enchanting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraces_(Bah%C3%A1'%C3%AD) - Ever wonder where Adam and Eve are buried/said to be buried? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs -

The most recent one, or so I gather. The previous prophets brought a message for their place and time, and the Baha'i promote following the most relevant one to the modern world.


I read it as a priority to encourage women to pursue education and leadership positions. In Bahá'u'lláh's time, women's rights were a very pressing issue as women were just beginning on the road to legal equality with men. Thus, part of his social justice message emphasized the importance of bringing women up to equality.


English is a complex language, difficult for non-native speakers to learn. Mandating English would also be seen as negative for a variety of reasons, as it would be an imposition on other cultures. Ideal would be a simplified language like Esperanto that would be no one's native language (and thus adopting it favours no one over anyone else) and easy for everyone to learn as a secondary language.


I agree. Khan_Sama's explanation of the proposed political system under the Baha'i is severely lacking.


My understanding is that they want a one world state. How they intend to accomplish world domination without opposing any existing government and without engaging in any partisan campaigning is beyond me.

I'll let you know when that happens. o_o



Precisely.



Bangalore and Kuala Lumpur are examples of two cities with large Baha'i populations (2500+ each), and its worked out pretty well. I met two LSA members in Bangalore, and they are pretty efficient guys. I have a lot of respect for them.



Baha'u'llah. One revelations teachings nullify the previous ones.



We believe that there should be more women administrators as women are more efficient at preventing war than men. Priority should be given to a woman's education as she is the first educator in the family. An educated woman will ensure all her children will be educated.



That depends in the future. We were in total agreement with the League of Nations and the UNO. The Baha'i faith has an office in the UN as of now.



Whatever suits the international community in the future. I'm personally in favour of English. And yes, English already does this, but there are many countries that teach French or Spanish rather than English as an auxiliary language.



No violent protests, riots, or anything which may cause harm to society. Militant means, of course, are totally banned. We are forbidden from carrying weapons, unless the country we're in is in deep turmoil and we need to protect our families. Take Somalia for example.



I'm not sure of the process of replacement - but nothing of the sort will happen until Baha'is make an absolute majority.



You do understand that the Baha'i faith appeared in the mid-19th century, in a third world country, right? The Baha'i faith is in its infancy, and no such state will be established for at least 200-300 years, unless the Baha'i populations in the Pacific islands continue to grow and become dominant.

And for how and where, there's nothing of the sort mentioned.

As for military guidelines - so far the writings I have come across only condemn high military spending. The rest will be up to the national spiritual assembly.



I haven't dug too deep into the administrative system. The Baha'i writings are vast, and I mainly concentrate on the relationship between Islam and the faith. I generally teach the faith to Muslims on a one-on-one basis since I am from an Islamic background. If an individual has questions on administration or economics (which hasn't happened so far), I'd probably take them to a scholar who has a deep understanding of Baha'i administration.

But to be clear, we don't have party politics. The only state which actively opposes us is the Islamic Republic of Iran, and there's nothing much we can do about it.



World domination is a pretty strong term. I'd say it's international integration.

The Baha'i writings mention many upheavals against the faith, and many attempts to eradicate us, which has only started to begun. This, according to the writings, makes the faith grow faster than ever.

We do seek world government - but you can compare it to the current EU with Baha'i administration in place.



We don't take that story literally. The apple represents the material world, and the serpent represents detachment from God. We believe that Satan is essentially detachment from God, not some red chap with horns.

We believe creationism, at the atomic level, is based on pure love. Evolution of organism is an undeniable fact.

See, the lack of planning once again concerns me, especially since it is once again in an area of international relations and potential violent conflict. You really have to be prepared to deal with such problems if you hope to avoid bloodshed.


A couple thousand is pushing the limits of this system of administration. India has somewhere around a billion people, right? You think this system could work with a billion-person electorate?


I just flat don't believe you on that point. I mean, you may not be politically organized right now, but I haven't seen a viable alternative to the political process for managing a functioning democratic government.


My use of the term "world domination" was at least partially in jest, as I know that's not technically the goal. But surely you must realize that if the Baha'i start to set up a government they will be opposed? At some point you will either have to answer those who oppose you or stand down.

Right now my religion (Presbyterianism) has a much better and more realistic model of government than you've put forward. We do everything through excruciatingly tedious committees and layers of bureaucratic minutia (we even have committees to decide who's eligible to be on the committees) but we keep it organized and it works. We successfully manage a representative democratic government that administers for a community of over 2 million Christians. It's not perfect, but it's functional and can actually be implemented in reality.

I've already explained this. Collective security.



You can look into any article on Baha'i administration. While you might not agree without our administrative methods, we've found it to be a huge success.



We welcome opposition - the truth is always opposed.



I agree. We have a similar system. I merely explained the basics which I know of.

http://bahaikipedia.org/Administration

I am atheist. I don't see the value of faith. I don't want to be ruled by theocracy.

That is not a satisfactory answer unless you have a universal arbiter that decides what side the collective security forces will back in any given conflict, and no such arbiter will ever be respected when push comes to shove. The Concert of Europe, the League of Nations, and many other collective security arrangements have been dismal failures, and when they finally come to an end the result is catastrophic warfare that ends up sucking in everyone. The only collective security arrangement to succeed has been NATO, because one massively powerful state was willing to enforce its will on the rest of the world and to use the threat of utter annihilation to ward off potential foes. I don't think the Baha'i endorse such an approach.

How would the Baha'i "Universal House of Justice" have arbitrated World War I, for instance? Both sides claimed the other was the aggressor, and even with 20/20 hindsight we can't clearly see who was wrong. There will be ambiguous situations in international affairs where you can't just say "Oh, this body will mediate and everything will work out." There will be situations where one side is dissatisfied enough that they might consider going to war.


You will be opposed in more serious ways. If the Baha'i attempt to set up a world government to arbitrate international affairs, they can expect to be met by force. If they are unwilling to defend themselves by force of arms, and they are unwilling to involve themselves in years of political campaigning to diplomatically and peacefully establish their world government, it is not going to happen. That's really all there is to it. The methods you have proposed simply cannot and will not lead to the results you desire. This world you envision is no more realistic than the fantasies of Communist revolutionaries, anarchists, or the Venus Project.

I must say, quite a lot of this actually corresponds with my beliefs.

From what I have read of the Ba'Hai, they seem like a peaceful decent group of people. Think of Islam transformed into something human and reasonable.

ruveyn