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DarthMetaKnight
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10 Aug 2010, 6:19 pm

Here's one thing I have said before on this site - if a wild wolf had AS, how would you know? It would have no trouble socializing with other wolves since wolf social order is simpler than human social order. It wouldn't have anything to obess over since the only thing to really obsess about would be hunting - and wolves do that every day anyway. Therefore I think there is no way to prove that AS is unique to humans and I suspect it probably existed all throughout human history, except in the beginning it was just a healthy variant in human personality.

In early human history, traits were valued that helped one to survive in the wild. Acute senses, spacial memory, pain tolerence ect. None of those are inheritly lacking in people with AS. As civilization advances, those traits are losing value. The traits that are gaining value are the traits that help one to survive in modern civilization I.E. social skills, the ability to stay long hours in a cubicle without going crazy ect.
As civilization advances, people with personalities that don't work well in civilization go from being part of normal, healthy variation in human personality to "eccentric" to having a "disability."

It all makes sense now. It's horrifying, but it all makes sense and I can't deny it. I am not disabled, modern civilization does not fit me. I think my head might explode now.

http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt


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Epiphany
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10 Aug 2010, 6:24 pm

So that's what you need to come to terms with, you aren't going to change the world or yourself, just gotta find your way to live in it.



DarthMetaKnight
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10 Aug 2010, 7:36 pm

What I'm saying is that if this keeps up, more and more of what was once ordinary human behavior is going to be classified as a disorder. I'm pretty sure ADHD only became a disorder because of civilization as well. Did you know that there's a disorder called "Oppositional defiant disorder"? Doesn't that sound creepy how opposing authority is beginning to become a disorder?

What's next? Independent thought disorder? Hyper-imaginative disorder? Hyper-logical disorder? If hyper-logical disorder became a disorder people would have to take meds so they could believe that 2+2=5!

Am I right or am I crazy?

"We shape our tools and thereafter our tools shape us."
Marshall McLuhan


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Last edited by DarthMetaKnight on 10 Aug 2010, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Apple_in_my_Eye
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10 Aug 2010, 7:49 pm

Sure, before written language dyslexia wasn't a problem(?). And in the Stone Age dyscalcula was probably also irrelevant. OTOH, a strong back and good eyesight were probably really important, whereas now (in 1st world countries anwyay) it's not that important. All the rules of society are arbitrary.



takemitsu
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10 Aug 2010, 8:11 pm

I think there are two things in play here

1) Psychological conditions change over time. The description of these so-called maladies evolve as our understanding about the mechanisms involved are deepened (or muddied). Why didn't we just stop at a DSM I? Some conditions seem to be pretty new and could very well be epiphenomena of the modern age (Hikikomori), which could mean that they will eventually go away, or there will be more to see.

2) Depending on the era you live in, your condition could really be an advantage and not even recognized as one. If the wolf had AS and all it did was sharpen it's survival skills, it could hardly be a burden to it's tribe or whatever you want to call it. Today, it seems that if your sociopathic, you have a good chance of being pretty successful, as many people in the corporate world fit the criteria. Doesn't mean they are bad, but wouldn't a company do better if it had people that didn't care so much about the price of doing business has on communities and the environment. BP comes to mind. They aren't any smarter, they are just more equipped for doing the job. I'm sure a lot of people here feel looked over for their efforts just because they can't put on a smile all day on command.

Right now might not be the best time for people with AS. I feel like early 20th century would have been good for me since there wasn't so much negative stigma attached to a lot of disorders and intelligence was more smiled upon, eccentrics were generally looked at as just that, eccentric. But their time may come again.



Mdyar
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10 Aug 2010, 11:10 pm

takemitsu wrote:
I think there are two things in play here

1) Psychological conditions change over time. The description of these so-called maladies evolve as our understanding about the mechanisms involved are deepened (or muddied). Why didn't we just stop at a DSM I? Some conditions seem to be pretty new and could very well be epiphenomena of the modern age (Hikikomori), which could mean that they will eventually go away, or there will be more to see.

2) Depending on the era you live in, your condition could really be an advantage and not even recognized as one. If the wolf had AS and all it did was sharpen it's survival skills, it could hardly be a burden to it's tribe or whatever you want to call it. Today, it seems that if your sociopathic, you have a good chance of being pretty successful, as many people in the corporate world fit the criteria. Doesn't mean they are bad, but wouldn't a company do better if it had people that didn't care so much about the price of doing business has on communities and the environment. BP comes to mind. They aren't any smarter, they are just more equipped for doing the job. I'm sure a lot of people here feel looked over for their efforts just because they can't put on a smile all day on command.

Right now might not be the best time for people with AS. I feel like early 20th century would have been good for me since there wasn't so much negative stigma attached to a lot of disorders and intelligence was more smiled upon, eccentrics were generally looked at as just that, eccentric. But their time may come again.


Here is an excerpt of an article that I found quite interesting and relevant to this thread :

Quote:
There exists a probably true notion that nowadays it is harder for Aspergoid individuals to find and hold a job than in the 1940s when Asperger wrote his paper. Since the 1960s, Western societies have undergone significant feminization, and men are now required to behave like women in many respects: to be "team players", to have "communication skills", to work in "office gardens" instead of having a room of their own, to talk about "emotions", to possess "E.Q.", to "multi-task", and so on. Such expectations are detrimental for this type, and what in the past would have fallen within the normal variance of personality now becomes a social and professional handicap. The blessings of feminism may be putting ever more potentially creative achievers in the disabled category, thus as it were castrating society's source of progress.


Full article: http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/a ... rized.html



DarthMetaKnight
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10 Aug 2010, 11:51 pm

Mdyar wrote:
Here is an excerpt of an article that I found quite interesting and relevant to this thread :

Quote:
There exists a probably true notion that nowadays it is harder for Aspergoid individuals to find and hold a job than in the 1940s when Asperger wrote his paper. Since the 1960s, Western societies have undergone significant feminization, and men are now required to behave like women in many respects: to be "team players", to have "communication skills", to work in "office gardens" instead of having a room of their own, to talk about "emotions", to possess "E.Q.", to "multi-task", and so on. Such expectations are detrimental for this type, and what in the past would have fallen within the normal variance of personality now becomes a social and professional handicap. The blessings of feminism may be putting ever more potentially creative achievers in the disabled category, thus as it were castrating society's source of progress.


Full article: http://www.paulcooijmans.com/asperger/a ... rized.html


That excerpt looks exactly like the paranoid suspicions I have had since I was 13 years old. I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!! !


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iamnotaparakeet
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11 Aug 2010, 1:21 am

Misandry stinks as bad as misogyny, but since the 1960's onward it seems that misandry has been the currently accepted attitude in the USA at least. Throw Asperger's on top of the usual hatred of men by which feminists burn their own brains away with, and you have a crappy situation for any male with Asperger's in finding and keeping work.