Racism has two irrational elements: both hatred and love

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

Previous topic | Next topic

Hanotaux
Deinonychus

Joined: 9 Aug 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 355

21 Aug 2010, 1:53 pm

Quote:

Normally, racism is considered a social problem when it leads people to discriminate negatively, persecute, or physically harm other people. So while saying "[insert ethnicity here] people are [insert positive trait here]" is just as fallacious as saying "[insert ethnicity here] people are [insert negative trait here]" the latter is usually the one about which we should be more concerned.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
It is more than a motivation for persecution, it is also a motivation for disproportionate preferential treatment. Both are wrong.

It is much more often a motivation for persecution. I'm actually trying to think of examples of positive racial stereotypes used as a motive for disproportionate preferential treatment... I mean, affirmative action is preferential treatment, but it's based on an attempt to correct for persecution rather than a belief that minorities are better at some things.

Continuing to offer preferences for any groups will just keep perpetuating the cycles of hatred and jealousy.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Aug 2010, 6:09 pm

Sand wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Racism is a form of reductionism. It is also a way of confounding the accidental and the essential.

It is, in dry neutral terms, a serious category error.

Many Liberals who express concern and woe for darker skin people are as racist (in the above sense) as the bigots who think persons with much melanin in their skins are sub-human animals.

ruveyn

Your assumption is, of course, that dark skinned people do not deserve protection and compensation from the obvious racism that has persecuted them. The same, of course, applies to Jews who have been persecuted for centuries, just as have dark skinned people.

Not so. In an ethical social order, people should be protected against unjust and arbitrary treatment. Remedies should exist in the system to either prevent such practices or compensate the victims of such practices, hopefully at the expense of those committing the injustice.

You really like to jump to conclusions, don't you?

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

21 Aug 2010, 7:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Sand wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Your words

Quote:

Many Liberals who express concern and woe for darker skin people are as racist (in the above sense) as the bigots who think persons with much melanin in their skins are sub-human animals.

Does that make you a racist insofar as Jews are concerned?

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Aug 2010, 7:31 pm

Sand wrote:

Does that make you a racist insofar as Jews are concerned?

Not particularly. Jews have a special heritage for historical reasons but biologically they are of the same mutt species as the rest of the human race. We all bleed red blood when pierced or cut. We are all hairless apes with a high opinion of ourselves.
ruveyn

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

21 Aug 2010, 7:51 pm

Hanotaux wrote:

Continuing to offer preferences for any groups will just keep perpetuating the cycles of hatred and jealousy.

Which is a significant part of why I think racially-based affirmative action programs are bad policy. But they do not meet the definition of "racism" put forward by iamnotaparakeet.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Aug 2010, 8:02 pm

Orwell wrote:

Hanotaux wrote:

Continuing to offer preferences for any groups will just keep perpetuating the cycles of hatred and jealousy.

Which is a significant part of why I think racially-based affirmative action programs are bad policy. But they do not meet the definition of "racism" put forward by iamnotaparakeet.

If we are going to have affirmative action or outreach we should base it on cultural conditions rather than on the accident of biological inheritance.

Personally I am inclined toward the "Let'em Croak" school of thought, but that is just me. I do not think I can offer a serious defense of that inclination. I am just nasty, that's all.

ruveyn

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

21 Aug 2010, 8:09 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Hanotaux wrote:

Continuing to offer preferences for any groups will just keep perpetuating the cycles of hatred and jealousy.

Which is a significant part of why I think racially-based affirmative action programs are bad policy. But they do not meet the definition of "racism" put forward by iamnotaparakeet.

The problem with "let em croak" becomes personal when "em" become "me". We are all "em".

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

21 Aug 2010, 8:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Hanotaux wrote:

Continuing to offer preferences for any groups will just keep perpetuating the cycles of hatred and jealousy.

Which is a significant part of why I think racially-based affirmative action programs are bad policy. But they do not meet the definition of "racism" put forward by iamnotaparakeet.

If we are going to have affirmative action or outreach we should base it on cultural conditions rather than on the accident of biological inheritance.

I concur. Whites as well as blacks get screwed over by the dismal failure of our inner-city schools. Whites as well as blacks are occasionally born into privilege and opportunity that they did nothing to "deserve." Affirmative action would make all the sense in the world if it were based on something less arbitrary than race.

_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

22 Aug 2010, 9:01 am

Sand wrote:

The problem with "let em croak" becomes personal when "em" become "me". We are all "em".

Wrong. The little babies broiled alive in Hiroshima were not my kin. In a war there is Us and there is Them and that is a big difference. You will notice we (US) always aim our guns at Them.

The ruling class of Japan sowed the wind and the little babies broiled alive reaped the whirlwind. That is the way it goes. In this world there is too much law and too little justice.

ruveyn

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

22 Aug 2010, 3:29 pm

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

23 Aug 2010, 3:02 am

skafather84 wrote:

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

So, what of people who give undue favoritism on the basis of "what they see" alone?

How is the phrase "all indigo people are awesome" any less lazy and stupid than "all indigo people are awful"?

Sand
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

23 Aug 2010, 3:06 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

So, what of people who give undue favoritism on the basis of "what they see" alone?

How is the phrase "all indigo people are awesome" any less lazy and stupid than "all indigo people are awful"?

I sincerely doubt that a great many whites or other groups view black people as awesome merely from being black.

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

23 Aug 2010, 3:08 am

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

So, what of people who give undue favoritism on the basis of "what they see" alone?

How is the phrase "all indigo people are awesome" any less lazy and stupid than "all indigo people are awful"?

I sincerely doubt that a great many whites or other groups view black people as awesome merely from being black.

I've met a few actually.

greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

23 Aug 2010, 5:02 am

Sand wrote:

I sincerely doubt that a great many whites or other groups view black people as awesome merely from being black.

How about white women dating black men? I suppose some sort of stereotype might be there, in some cases.

_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

23 Aug 2010, 10:07 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

So, what of people who give undue favoritism on the basis of "what they see" alone?

How is the phrase "all indigo people are awesome" any less lazy and stupid than "all indigo people are awful"?

Did I ever say it wasn't? Treating them as something more is just as bad as treating them as something less.

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

23 Aug 2010, 10:10 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Sand wrote:

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Racism has one aspect: laziness. The inability to actually think beyond what you see in front of you and treat them as if they're a person.

So, what of people who give undue favoritism on the basis of "what they see" alone?

How is the phrase "all indigo people are awesome" any less lazy and stupid than "all indigo people are awful"?

I sincerely doubt that a great many whites or other groups view black people as awesome merely from being black.

I've met a few actually.

Same here. But I tend to come across more people who view black people negatively rather than in an overly positive manner.

Page 2 of 2 [ 32 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2

Jump to:

Similar Topics
top three periodic elements in Computers, Math, Science, and Technology	24 Mar 2024, 12:31 pm Fenn
Irrational feeling of injustice in Bipolar, Tourettes, Schizophrenia, and other Psychological Conditions	09 Mar 2024, 8:24 am autisticelders
Autistic Love Songs in Art, Writing, and Music	02 May 2024, 10:06 pm TwilightPrincess
I LOVE HANDYCAM RECORDERS in Computers, Math, Science, and Technology	09 Apr 2024, 2:41 pm ToughDiamond

Racism has two irrational elements: both hatred and love Post Reply New Topic

Racism has two irrational elements: both hatred and love