Theistic Satanism

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puddingmouse
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24 Jan 2011, 2:36 pm

skafather84 wrote:

What kind of moron cheers for the wrong guy?

If you're acknowledging "Satan" that means that you're acknowledging the Christian-made demon which also means that you're acknowledging the Christian god.

"Theistic Satanism" is stupidity and any non-theistic Satanist wouldn't be as kind with their words as I am about it.

So what if she acknowledges the Christian god? Believing in something doesn't imply you worship it.

Christians believe in Satan and acknowledge him. She just chose to support the other team. All you need to do is read a bit of Milton to see why someone would choose to do that (though Milton's Satan is actually a ****, but that's another debate).

I find LaVeyans far sillier (who make up the majority of the non-theistic Satanists you mentioned). They invented a fake religion to dress up their Objectivism. It's also there to shock people (and also to annoy the hell out of most 'right-hand' occultists). Now, I'm all for someone inventing a fake religion to annoy people, really I am, but calling it 'Satanism' is sort of a disservice to Satan (and, yes, I know Satan isn't real - I mean the myth of Satan).

Theistic Satanism seems much more sincere.

I'm literally playing devil's advocate here, since I don't believe in Satan.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 24 Jan 2011, 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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24 Jan 2011, 2:54 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

So what if she acknowledges the Christian god? Believing in something doesn't imply you worship it.

Christians believe in Satan and acknowledge him. She just chose to support the other team. All you need to do is read a bit of Milton to see why someone would choose to do that (though Milton's Satan is actually a ****, but that's another debate).

I find LaVeyans far sillier (who make up the majority of the non-theistic Satanists you mentioned). They invented a fake religion to dress up their Objectivism. It's also there to shock people (and also to annoy the hell out of most 'right-hand' occultists). Now, I'm all for someone inventing a fake religion to annoy people, but calling it 'Satanism' is sort of a disservice to Satan (and, yes, I know Satan isn't real - I mean the myth of Satan).

Theistic Satanism seems much more sincere.

I'm literally playing devil's advocate here, since I don't believe in Satan.

Theistic Satanism is much more silly than LaVeyan Satanism. LaVey did it to make a point and to create a stir about it. Good on him. To take a myth of sub-deity being and make it something of worship is just absurd. In the myth, satan is created by god therefore despite opposing god, it is always weaker than god. Might as well just place bets on that human manhole cover (a man with no arms or legs) that now does MMA. LaVeyan Satanism does something great: it makes most of those fundy evangelical idiots look even more idiotic because they refuse to understand that LaVeyan Satanism is pretty much entirely atheist in nature and has nothing to do with their mythology other than mocking it.

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puddingmouse
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24 Jan 2011, 3:04 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Thus, the Mlitonic Satan's position is similar to our own. As he says in Devil's Advocate 'I'm the first humanist'. However,the OP has stated she doesn't believe in the Miltonic Satan anyway, but rather that her subdeity is actually a full-blown real deity with more ancient roots than Judaism. It's only therefore as silly as any other form of paganism. I contend that worshipping the Judeo-Christian, or Miltonic, Satan isn't as silly as you think...but you're entitled to your opinion. If I had to choose, I'd go with the underdog.

Quote:

Might as well just place bets on that human manhole cover (a man with no arms or legs) that now does MMA. LaVeyan Satanism does something great: it makes most of those fundy evangelical idiots look even more idiotic because they refuse to understand that LaVeyan Satanism is pretty much entirely atheist in nature and has nothing to do with their mythology other than mocking it.

I'll admit that LaVeyan Satanism does the job better than the Flying Spaghetti Monster does. Anything that manages to annoy both fundie Christians and Wiccans at the same time has achieved at great deal. I'm still a Romantic when it comes to my notions of Satan, though. Part of me is peeved by their co-opting of my favourite literary figure.

skafather84
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24 Jan 2011, 3:12 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

but rather that her subdeity is actually a full-blown real deity with more ancient roots than Judaism.

Then most likely it's referring to one of the deities around during the same time/before Judaism like Moloch or one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions_ ... _Near_East

Thus referring to it as Satanism is just outright wrong. To acknowledge a theistic Satanism is to acknowledge a theistic Christian god.

puddingmouse
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24 Jan 2011, 3:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Thus referring to it as Satanism is just outright wrong. To acknowledge a theistic Satanism is to acknowledge a theistic Christian god.

It is, quite possibly, a misnomer.

Even if she is a theistic Satanist, I'd still argue it's not that stupid, as far as spiritual beliefs go. Presented with the Christian myth, I still know which side I'm on. I wouldn't be on anything but the losing side against that tyrant.

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24 Jan 2011, 3:27 pm

All religions - including LaVey's Satanism - assume truths where knowledge can't be attained through experience or experimentation - that is, according to current technological level. For example, LaVey assumes death is absolute and end of experience. This - however logical - is not empirically knowable. Logic produces false results if factors are wrong, or not all factors have been accounted for. This is why any religious ideas are just that: Ideas. It's equally valid to believe in the flying spaghetti monster as it is to believe in God, Satan, trolls, dragons and visits made by other sentient species.

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puddingmouse
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24 Jan 2011, 3:34 pm

Kenjuudo wrote:

It's equally valid to believe in the flying spaghetti monster as it is to believe in God, Satan, trolls, dragons and visits made by other sentient species.

Oh, it's all equally valid...but it's not all equally poetic.

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24 Jan 2011, 7:16 pm

goetia wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Interesting beliefs.
@thechadmaster: I have read that some satanists identify Satan with an earlier deity from before the Judaic period, such as Anubis or Baal

Anubis is actually a separate god, along with Baal, or Beelzebub.

If you want to talk about Baal, go read 1 Kings 18 the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal.

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26 Jan 2011, 1:10 am

thechadmaster wrote:

goetia wrote:

Vigilans wrote:

Interesting beliefs.
@thechadmaster: I have read that some satanists identify Satan with an earlier deity from before the Judaic period, such as Anubis or Baal

Anubis is actually a separate god, along with Baal, or Beelzebub.

If you want to talk about Baal, go read 1 Kings 18 the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal.

The ironic thing is that we're wondering where the hell Yahweh is. Has He been asleep all this time (like Baal) or what?

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26 Jan 2011, 10:24 am

goetia wrote:

I'm not poking around in the dark, I know what I'm doing. If you meant that in a different way, I am not "messing around with darkness". In fact, darkness is out there to explore

yes i agree, i cant be satanic cuz believing satan is also believing in God cuz they from the same origins and im Agnostic Atheist though and a Transhumanist

its cool that you found happiness nin your religion and i havent heard you condemning other religions of which im thankful i cant stand religious intolerance, i defend whoevers religions is being intolerated lately its been Islam i dont got to be their religion to know they have the freedom to practice their own

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26 Jan 2011, 10:25 am

Transhumanism is about exploring the darkness to improve humanity through the ethical application of science and technology

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26 Jan 2011, 2:44 pm

I think satan is a alien with a different opinion. Slavery, wich is what christianity is about isnt really that happening of a idea. true freedom is, well knowing good and evil

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27 Jan 2011, 12:03 am

I wouldn't really mess with that. I think its better to tune into something that makes you feel connected with others and the universe around you.

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