Religion and Gay people (again)

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As regards the OP, he is right about most Christians in Europe and America.

In Jamaica, Uganda and Russia, and in some other countries (a few of them are developed), they do actually really hate gay people. I suppose that has more to do with the culture in those places, than the religion, but to people living in these countries, the two are inseparable.

I just found out that the 12 th century church did gay marriage. http://www.gaychristian101.com/Gay-Marriage.html

It doesn't matter what "the church" or any other institution did. The question is "Is it Biblical?" Twist it around any way you want, but the Bible is not friendly towards homosexuality.

I'm not saying that to be hateful. I'm just pointing out a fact. A very good college friend of mine is gay and very "in-your-face" about it, whereas I'm the more "you're a sinner! It's says right here in the Bible" type. Our friendship was possible because of other common bonds not to mention the same Biblical values of love and respect for other people, even if we disagree. Now, if I'm being honest, I probably do have a tiny homophobic bone SOMEWHERE in my body, but that doesn't mean I have to spew hatred around or belittle my friend.

I also became good friends with another guy who was a freshman when I met him. Before he "came out," he expressed numerous concerns about what he was feeling because of his strict Catholic upbringing. As you might expect, I counseled him on my own feelings and what the relationship of homosexuality to Christianity was. However, I also believe that Christian values are never intended to harm or shame someone and that love is more important than guilt. But if someone avoids outright shaming someone, that does not indicate approval. He made a choice, and whether I think that was the right choice or not is really irrelevant. If it were to ever come up in conversation, I'd have to be honest. But those feelings never got in the way of our friendship. I still maintain that sentiment now. There are a number of homosexuals on this site. If the topic comes up, the answer's not going to change. And here's my point: Why? Because the Bible doesn't change. But hopefully merely speaking my heart on the matter is not enough to constitute "bullying" or demeaning language. I have no respect for those who personally attack me, and I sincerely hope that I would never do that to someone I disagree with.

so the bible you read, from the thousands of different copies, is absoluitely the right one?
i question the authority of any book that can and has been interpreted over more than a millenia, especially when used for argumenting a personal viewpoint.
i think all christians would be better off if they never took the bible literally than if they did always.

Marriage is not unique to Christianity, so why should Christian views dominate it? Its absolutely absurd. It should be a secular institution. When I get married, its not going to be in a church. If I marry my current girlfriend, we are both Atheists. Why the hell would we care about all this irrelevant fiction? Why not just ban Atheist marriage while at it? Likewise, if two gay people want to get married, why should the Bible have any bearing on that? It is quite simple. It shouldn't.

'Read' Playgirl. Check out Hotmale.com (assuming that is a real site and my friend wasn't bsing me..) Go and make out with as many men as you can. If you're still not into dudes afterwards, that should answer your question.

Hotmale.com has been around since I was at school. My best friend at the time was a gay guy. One day, another boy asked him in the computer lab 'how do you spell hotmail'. Yeah, he gave the spelling as hotmale. The school content filter didn't block it :

You checkin' that site out right now aren't you?

Do I seem like that kind of person?

Oh, wait, don't answer that

I knew it
Oh behave!

:lmao:

OK, but the problem is that CURRENT books will eventually have been around for potentially more than a millennia. Why would a book be less authoritative then than it is now?


Who says it's always a personal viewpoint?

How about this: Apart from God and any objective moral code, is there any reason whatsoever that homosexuality be considered taboo?

Think about it. If there is no reason whatsoever, apart from the Bible, then that means that Christians are not just "making this up." There's no reason to consider homosexuality wrong OTHER than an ancient, written authority. The Christian argument then is "look, I'm not the one who wrote it. All I do is believe it and follow it." It's not "personal" because it didn't originate "personally" or individually with Christians.

If you say there IS a reason apart from the Bible, then you can't say the Bible is alone in its condemnation of homosexuality. You would have to concede that homosexuality is naturalistically aberrant, and the discussion becomes moot.

Seriously, if there's nothing at all wrong with it, why would some people take such a vocal stand against homosexuality in the first place? If that's the way they genuinely feel, then we're talking about something greater than arbitrary hatred, scapegoating, or mere personal agenda. I personally don't see anything to gain in this day and age from arbitrarily demonizing gays. If, for the sake of argument, there WAS a reason why someone would have something to gain from demonizing or persecuting gays, then it DOES become personal and Biblical prohibitions become a convenience.

So, in conclusion, if Christians believe and teach that homosexuality is wrong based on a Biblical teaching against homosexuality, it's not personal. They are not the ones who came up with the idea.

and if they contain no objectively verifiable content then they too will be washed out through the generations.
however that may have changed drastically with the computer, only time will tell.



true if they really do it because it is written in the bible and only because of that.

however i think that the issue here stems from the behavior that only shows in groups of humans, the effects of many ideas over time.
you see it in almost every single aspect of intollerant behavior, from people protesting at climate summits to full on revolutions.
i honestly think that some of those who vocally protest homosexuality(and other tolerance issues as well) have entirely different reasons.

but in my eyes the word personal means they have personal feelings on the matter, something many christians have against homosexuality appearantly.

The origins of homophobia are irrelevant. It didn't originate with Christianity (in most respects, Christianity is actually somewhat unoriginal...), but claiming that we have no right to be angry with Christianity for their homophobia because of this is a weak argument. Currently Christianity is [in the West] the prime justification for homophobia. Its like trying to say that Nazism can't be blamed for their hatred of the Jews because anti-Semitism has been around for thousands of years. It just doesn't work that way

I am a member of a church which teaches that homosexuality is a sin, though I don't think anyone in my home congregation actually believes gays are going to hell. I have made my views to my pastor clear that I support gay rights, including gay marriage. Even though I'm sure he thinks I'm wrong, he respects my right to my opinion. Part of it has to do with a close friend since the second grade who came out in adulthood. A couple other friends are bi. Another more important reason is that my wife is bisexual, and I'm not going to fault her for her sexuality.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Something I have trouble understanding is that why is it that only Christians are accused of homophobia, when being gay in a Muslim country carries ultra long prison sentences, if not the death penalty. (I am not sure what stance Judaism takes on this).