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Who_Am_I
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02 Dec 2012, 9:42 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Who_Am_I wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
What's wrong with obedience on the part of a wife?


Are you serious?
Obedience is for dogs and children..


According to the traditional wedding vows

Book of Common Prayer wrote:
Groom: I,____, take thee,_____, to be my lawful wedded Wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth.

Bride: I,_____, take thee,_____, to be my lawful wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth.


Screw the traditional wedding vows.


_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
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ArrantPariah
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02 Dec 2012, 11:01 pm

Who_Am_I wrote:
Screw the traditional wedding vows.


The screwing takes places shortly after the wedding vows.



ArrantPariah
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02 Dec 2012, 11:02 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
Plus, I've never done a virgin before. :wink:


It often involves blood and tears and difficulty getting it in. I'm still a bit traumatised by losing mine.


I've seen a few videos where defloration was purported. It does seem intriguing.



LKL
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03 Dec 2012, 1:19 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
LKL wrote:
That's not romance. It's a business transaction. Again, I don't blame these women for their choice - given their options, it's logical - but to call it 'romantic' is beyond euphemistic. It's not about romance, it's not about partnership, it's not about companionship; it's about finding an aesthetically pleasing servant who has no other decent options.


All marriages are business transactions. Most of the men who enter into these particular marriages perceive that they really have no better options, either. And, indeed most people who marry feel that they have found the best possible partner.

Of course it is about partnership and companionship. Is a man really going to lock his wife away in a closet? Of course he wants a companion.

Some business transactions are about forming a partnership; some are about purchasing resources. Buying a wife based on 'obedience, aesthetics, and hard work' is about the latter, and, as someone else already mentioned, it's only about 'companionship' to the extent that owning a dog is about companionship.

Arrant Pariah, you sound smarmy when you say 'coitus' or 'ejaculatory administrator.' You're talking about sex and prostitutes, and using cutesy euphemisms only makes it seem like you're trying to pretend to be cleaner than you are. We all know what you're talking about.



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03 Dec 2012, 8:42 am

LKL wrote:
Some business transactions are about forming a partnership; some are about purchasing resources. Buying a wife based on 'obedience, aesthetics, and hard work' is about the latter, and, as someone else already mentioned, it's only about 'companionship' to the extent that owning a dog is about companionship.


Whom one marries, what one seeks in a marriage partner, how one finds a spouse, are all very personal decisions, up to the people involved (or, in some countries, the parents). Most of these international marriages work out favourably. Of course, a wife's 'obedience, aesthetics, and hard work' would factor into one's decision. Who would want a wife who is mean, ugly, and sits around all day eating twinkies? A heterosexual feminist who was interested in marriage might have certain qualities that she sought in a mate, but might find it very difficult to find a man who measured up.

LKL wrote:
Arrant Pariah, you sound smarmy when you say 'coitus' or 'ejaculatory administrator.' You're talking about sex and prostitutes, and using cutesy euphemisms only makes it seem like you're trying to pretend to be cleaner than you are. We all know what you're talking about.


A few lines up, I did use the term screwing in lieu of coitus. I should hope that my choice of vocabulary would be perfectly understandable to the average reader. I use the term "executive ejaculatory administrator" because another feminist in another thread objected to my use of the term "prostitute." There is no pleasing everyone simultaneously. Especially feminists.



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03 Dec 2012, 3:39 pm

^ I objected to the habitual use of the word 'whore'. It suggested a lack of respect.

Was it an imaginary feminist that objected to the word 'prostitute', perchance?



ArrantPariah
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03 Dec 2012, 3:52 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
^ I objected to the habitual use of the word 'whore'. It suggested a lack of respect.

Was it an imaginary feminist that objected to the word 'prostitute', perchance?


'Whore', 'prostitute', 'harlot', what's the difference?

'Executive Ejaculatory Administrator' is the most respectful position title that we have been able to muster.



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03 Dec 2012, 3:55 pm

You call a woman a 'whore' as an insult, you don't call her a prostitute to insult her. What word do you hear in news sources?

It's like the difference between the phrase 'gay man' and the phrase 'arse bandit'.



ArrantPariah
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03 Dec 2012, 4:02 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
You call a woman a 'whore' as an insult, you don't call her a prostitute to insult her. What word do you hear in news sources?

I don't know. I don't listen to much news. I should thing that some people would be insulted if called a "prostitute." But, "Executive Ejaculatory Administrator?" That title suggests someone with a great deal of class and professionalism.

puddingmouse wrote:
It's like the difference between the phrase 'gay man' and the phrase 'arse bandit'.

I never heard the term "arse bandit" before. Is that a common insult in UK?



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03 Dec 2012, 5:52 pm

LKL wrote:
That's not romance. It's a business transaction. Again, I don't blame these women for their choice - given their options, it's logical - but to call it 'romantic' is beyond euphemistic. It's not about romance, it's not about partnership, it's not about companionship; it's about finding an aesthetically pleasing servant who has no other decent options.


That sums up dating in America. It does help to look for other qualities, such as working, which will not improve after marriage, maintaining their image, a little gulttony and sloth can become a lot, and obey being plea bargined down to, at least sticking to what you agreed to do.

It is in law a Joint Venture, between unequals. As long as the Courts will give half of everything I have, and Alimoney, there is a status of leaving the customer, because the product changed its mind, and now claims lesser value for being used. To date, the Courts have put the total burden on the purchaser.

It is treated like a Lease, and I would never sign if besides myself breaking the Lease, and having to pay for the full term, my Landlord could break the Lease, and I would still have to pay for the full term.

Pre Nups give equality to the parties, in event of the Limited Partnership dissolving, it becomes a Rental Contract, with severance pay.

Before such things were covered by the Insurance, Bride Price in the East, and Dowery in the West, which were refundable in some cases. Both types were down payments on a long term link between families, who the person you married was just one. She married the women of your family, you married the men of hers.

As for Romance and Companionship, it is an agreement that you both hate everyone on earth, more than you hate each other. Sleeping together is universal, and things always forbidden, are now approved and in arms reach.

The current practice is just extended dating, with a half life of 18 months.

When that promotion comes through, relocation, enough money to get the BMW with the light tan leather seats, you realize she clashed with drapes, her choice of outfits looked out of place on the sofa, and you start thinking about how honey blond hair would look in the seats, and start looking for someone who's eye color goes with the paint. The BMW is a long term dream, with all the right accessories.

On her part you were a starter husband, good for a two year apartment lease, as she shopped for a house buying second horse. He saw it coming and got nothing down, 30 year, where it was a tax shelter, that when she took it from him, was funded by the government, and might house a few tax deductions. He did not miss a beat as he had an apartment, and a mistress, both as rentals. By the time the tax deductions turn eighteen, he can afford a horse farm, Aston Martin, and a Cheerleader.

On the American Plan everyone plans on it ending, and still getting the income, tax deductions, and reaching the long term goals.

The Vietnamese girls plan forever, work for it, and their husbands being regulated by family, and expense, also think of forever. Arranged marriages seem to last, more than western Romantic Love.

With one shot to make this work, or spend the rest of your life planting rice knee deep in mud, or losing face as a man who could not keep a woman happy, both tried hard, to make a life with this total stranger.



LKL
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03 Dec 2012, 7:24 pm

arrant Pariah wrote:
A few lines up, I did use the term screwing in lieu of coitus. I should hope that my choice of vocabulary would be perfectly understandable to the average reader. I use the term "executive ejaculatory administrator" because another feminist in another thread objected to my use of the term "prostitute." There is no pleasing everyone simultaneously. Especially feminists.

"Executive ejaculatory administrator" is no more respectful of what a prostitute does than 'environmental consultant" is respectful of what a janitor does. It's smarmy and dishonest, pretending respect where you clearly feel none. it's NT.

@Inventor: I can't ever understand half of what you write, except that you're apparently divorced and bitter.



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03 Dec 2012, 9:17 pm

LKL wrote:
arrant Pariah wrote:
There is no pleasing everyone simultaneously. Especially feminists.

"Executive ejaculatory administrator" is no more respectful of what a prostitute does than 'environmental consultant" is respectful of what a janitor does. It's smarmy and dishonest, pretending respect where you clearly feel none..


Q.E.D.

By the way, I have nothing but the utmost respect and appreciation for both Executive Ejaculatory Administrators and Environmental Consultants.



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03 Dec 2012, 9:25 pm

No, I don't think that you do. Everything you say points to the fact that you view women as servants at best, or semi-animate objects that function solely for men's pleasure. You might find prostitutes *useful,* but by your own words you do not *respect* them as human beings.



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03 Dec 2012, 11:54 pm

LKL wrote:
No, I don't think that you do. Everything you say points to the fact that you view women as servants at best, or semi-animate objects that function solely for men's pleasure. You might find prostitutes *useful,* but by your own words you do not *respect* them as human beings.


I never said any such thing.

I still maintain that few men would want to compromise their manhood in order to pacify a fierce, shrewish wife.



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04 Dec 2012, 6:14 am

LKL wrote:
arrant Pariah wrote:
A few lines up, I did use the term screwing in lieu of coitus. I should hope that my choice of vocabulary would be perfectly understandable to the average reader. I use the term "executive ejaculatory administrator" because another feminist in another thread objected to my use of the term "prostitute." There is no pleasing everyone simultaneously. Especially feminists.

"Executive ejaculatory administrator" is no more respectful of what a prostitute does than 'environmental consultant" is respectful of what a janitor does. It's smarmy and dishonest, pretending respect where you clearly feel none. it's NT.

@Inventor: I can't ever understand half of what you write, except that you're apparently divorced and bitter.


Never divorced, and only report on the economic overview of the largest life investment most people make. Also the one least thought about.

Marriage has the same problems of small business, which also have a mostly unfavorable outcome. At least in business a Plan is written, laying out all of the costs before investing, and there is a clear view of job descriptions.

In business if you do not love what you are doing, find something you do love, because you are giving your life to it.

Being with others, Partnership, Companionship, are very important, because working together involves more time than most spend with family.

The group dynamic of people joined by a common idea is what makes or breaks a business.

Romance does not have a business equivelant, unless you consider Bernie Madoff romancing his investors.

I think the Vietnamese girls and their mail order husbands both have a clear idea of what they want, what they are investing their lives in, and take a serious view of the long term.

In the west, romance, flirting, dating, have become an industry of their own. While it does sell books and products, it is only one step toward a goal that often seems to be left out.

Serial bride to be and potential Mister Right, both play the role like a Business Plan, but never make the step to Incorporate.

Anyone with fifty Business Plans and never a Startup, would not be considered by a serious person. Even someone with several failed Startups would be a better choice, at least they tried, and perhaps learned something.

It is seen in American Business, most do not have a clear plan, or the funding to pay the rent for six months, it is much like Romance, I will open the door, and something will happen. Most fail within a year.

Those with a strong plan, ample funding, and a vision of the future, are more likely to last. Here the Asians are superior, they have a shared vision.

We call it the Chinese Business Plan, it covers the next 500 years. New startups write in their children and grandchildren as having a place in the family business. It is their retirement and care in old age, to have built something that will support generations and make them secure in old age.

It is the one business model that has survived famines, wars, plague, and all of the survivors know it is the only way.

The East sees us as children who have wealth, and do not know how to use it or keep it.



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04 Dec 2012, 11:29 am

Inventor wrote:
I think the Vietnamese girls and their mail order husbands both have a clear idea of what they want, what they are investing their lives in, and take a serious view of the long term.

In the west, romance, flirting, dating, have become an industry of their own. While it does sell books and products, it is only one step toward a goal that often seems to be left out.....

We call it the Chinese Business Plan, it covers the next 500 years. New startups write in their children and grandchildren as having a place in the family business. It is their retirement and care in old age, to have built something that will support generations and make them secure in old age.

It is the one business model that has survived famines, wars, plague, and all of the survivors know it is the only way....


You raise some excellent points.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -love.html
Quote:
...According to research, those in arranged marriages – or who have had their partner chosen for them by a parent or matchmaker – tend to feel more in love as time grows, whereas those in regular marriages feel less in love over time. And within ten years, the connection felt by those in arranged marriages is said to be around twice as strong.

Relationship experts claim this is because arranged matches are carefully considered, with thought going into whether potential partners’ families, interests and life goals are compatible. This means they are more likely to commit for life – and to stick together through rocky patches.

Those who marry for love, on the other hand, tend to be blinded by passion and so overlook these crucial details. When the going gets tough, they are more likely to view the situation simply as a natural end to their romantic dream – a way of fate telling them something is wrong with the relationship.

With soaring divorce rates and record numbers of single-parent households in the West, researchers suggest it is time to rethink the Western approach to love....

feelings of love in love matches begin to fade by as much as a half in 18 months, whereas the love in the arranged marriages tends to grow gradually, surpassing the love in the unarranged marriages at about the five-year mark. Ten years on, the affection felt by those in arranged marriages is typically twice as strong.

Dr Epstein believes this is because Westerners leave their love lives to chance, or fate, often confusing love with lust, whereas those in other cultures look for more than just passion. He said: ‘The idea is we must not leave our love lives to chance. We plan our education, our careers and our finances but we’re still uncomfortable with the idea that we should plan our love lives. I do not advocate arranged marriages but I think a lot can be learned from them. In arranged marriages, thought goes into the matching. In the West, physical attraction is important. But people must be able to distinguish lust from love. Strong physical attraction is very dangerous, it can be blinding.

‘In the West marriages are easy to get out of. But in arranged marriages, the commitment is very strong. They get married knowing they won’t leave, so when times are harder – if they face injury or trauma – they don’t run away. It brings them closer.’

Francine Kaye, relationship expert and author of The Divorce Doctor, added: ‘There is an awful lot to be said for arranged marriages. They are determined to make it work. I have seen in arranged marriages in the Orthodox Jewish community that the parents very carefully look at compatibility – it is not left to chance. They do their homework on their characteristics, their values, morals and life goals.

‘It should be pointed out that arranged marriages work because culturally marriage is seen differently. We have a very romantic view of marriage. Theirs is more pragmatic..


The Moonies are still big on arranged marriages

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/rel ... 55174520/1

And

http://www.observer.ug/index.php?option ... &Itemid=70

Quote:
India is said to have a success marriage rate of 90-98.9%.

Is this because most of the marriages are simply arranged? While it might appear so, an Indian woman who didn’t want to be named says this is not necessarily the case. She attributes the Indian marriage success rate to tolerance.

Where you find an educated, independent woman taking no crap, or what she considers crap, from her husband, a traditional Indian girl will withstand a lot of hardship in the name of keeping a marriage intact.

Besides, Indians generally believe that marriages are “made in heaven”; they are not to be broken. So, even if a spouse is terrible to another, the abused spouse will sit it out because she/he does not want to break the marriage bond.

A Sanyu FM listener recently attested to this fact. He wrote into the breakfast show, saying his wife’s patience had turned him from a bad husband to a good one. This caller, of Indian origin, says he had been dating a Ugandan when his parents told him they had organized a marriage for him back home.

The marriage took place, though he was resentful of her. When he returned home with his bride, he embarked on being a bad husband. He cheated, was indifferent, went home late but his wife was good to him; she always waited on him and never questioned him.

He says that her subservience and tolerance won him over. He could not continue being bad to a person that was good to him and eventually, he turned into a good husband.

To him, arranged marriages don’t last because they are arranged; rather, it is about tolerance and the belief that marriages are from the Indian God.


The more that some of the more strident feminist post their strident opinions here, the more attractive the Vietnamese option appears.

Because I have a penis, I am automatically considered to be ignorant, evil and oppressive, and I "view women as servants at best, or semi-animate objects that function solely for men's pleasure." Marriage and divorce are both to be taken very lightly.

A man who marries a feminist can look forward to bullying and merciless henpecking. To be fair, at least the feminists do put all of their cards on the table. The man really has no-one but himself to blame.

Puddingmouse wrote:
...It's possible to have a practical approach to relationships but at the same time have it as a mutual attraction with equal partners.


Most of the blokes who spend their days posting on WrongPlanet probably aren't going to get involved in a relationship based upon mutual attraction. Some of us might end up being collared by some dame by whom we would probably have been better off not being collared. And, even for those of us who do get swept away in a mutual attraction, the hormones will eventually wear off, and we may end up being bitter and disappointed when we eventually confront the reality of what our hormones did to us.