Atheists - prove it.

Page 3 of 31 [ 485 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 31 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

ryan93
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,315
Location: Galway, Ireland

08 May 2011, 11:28 am

Quote:

The thing about God is, he works whether or not you believe in him.

I've yet to see Him do anything other than try to convince us he doesn't exist.

Quote:

Close reading of science and its history says that is not prezackly and consistently true - though a lot of scientific instruments' performance is user neutral.

I don't think people should looking for a infallible knowledge source should look to Science. People who want to have a roof over their head, food in their stomachs or battery in their laptops might want to consider bowing to the power of empirical thought.

_________________
The scientist only imposes two things, namely truth and sincerity, imposes them upon himself and upon other scientists - Erwin Schrodinger

Member of the WP Strident Atheists

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

08 May 2011, 11:47 am

Philologos wrote:

Close reading of science and its history says that is not prezackly and consistently true - though a lot of scientific instruments' performance is user neutral.

The thing about God is, he works whether or not you believe in him.

God working isn't directly observable, and can't be falsified.

The really bizarre part of this conversation is that we're only able to have it because of science.

Hardly anybody really understands what happens when electrons pass through a transistor, but transistors keep right on working all around us. Because of science.

Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

08 May 2011, 11:47 am

leejosepho wrote:

Question: How could any of us here with finite minds ever assure an accurate conclusion being drawn there?

In any case, just adding "sovereign" along with "good, all-powerful, and all-knowing" characteristics would reveal said being's right to decide the matter all by itself.

I provided a logical argument. Follow my logical argument.

Also "sovereign" has nothing to do with good or bad.

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

08 May 2011, 11:53 am

"The really bizarre part of this conversation is that we're only able to have it because of science."

It is only because of God any conversation is possible.

Science is possible only bacause f God.

Anyhoww, what is with bizarre? We have heard that said before. It is only reasonable if someone is claiming science is useless.

Which nobody here seems to have said.

Science is very useful.

So is carbon.

It is only because of carbon we are able to have this conversation.

So what is oxygen, chopped liver?

Less knee jerk and more thoughtful points, please. We all - or most - enjoy the latter.

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

08 May 2011, 11:56 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

I provided a logical argument. Follow my logical argument.

Also "sovereign" has nothing to do with good or bad.

Sovereign has EVERYTHING to do with good or bad. Sovereign sets the standards foir good and bad.

When you are sovereign in the universe, you can set up humanity - if there is one - as YOU please.

Ah, to live in a universe with an Awesomely Glorious Sovereign God!

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

08 May 2011, 11:58 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

I provided a logical argument. Follow my logical argument.

Also "sovereign" has nothing to do with good or bad.

Sovereignty lets the entity decide the matter and leaves us with nothing but mere opinion (if we arrogantly insist) as to whether its world even is good or bad.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

WilliamWDelaney
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,201

08 May 2011, 11:59 am

leejosepho wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

a) This world is not the sort of world that would be created by a good, all-powerful, and all-knowing being.

Question: How could any of us here with finite minds ever assure an accurate conclusion being drawn there?

Actually, you would be better off pointing out that the God of Abraham does not make any pretention of being infinitely good or infinitely wise. He is in fact a very human and fallible character. He makes mistakes and learns from them, like all of us do. He gets angry and does something rash once in a while, but he repents and makes amends.

The presence of evil in the world, then, would just follow suit.

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

08 May 2011, 12:19 pm

Just this once:

With all due homage to the many doctrines of inspiration [and THAT is a week of impassioned discussion], the respresentation of God in the Pentateuch is couched in human language and compressed [not only by millennia of transmission] to be nearly comprehensible to humanity.

If Number 1 Son at age 6 drew a picture of me [I do not think he did, dinosaurs were more interesting] it would be be a closer match to the 3-dimensional me than even the most sophisticated theology can be to the reality of the God of Abraham.

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

08 May 2011, 12:31 pm

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

a) This world is not the sort of world that would be created by a good, all-powerful, and all-knowing being.

Question: How could any of us here with finite minds ever assure an accurate conclusion being drawn there?

Actually, you would be better off pointing out that the God of Abraham does not make any pretention of being infinitely good or infinitely wise ...

You make a really great point there, and I had completely missed its bit of simple logic! God has "sovereignly decided" (or has "declared") what is good and what is evil, but his sovereignty is not dependent upon anything else.

WilliamWDelaney wrote:

He is in fact a very human and fallible character. He makes mistakes and learns from them, like all of us do. He gets angry and does something rash once in a while, but he repents and makes amends.

The presence of evil in the world, then, would just follow suit.

I have difficulty with "very human and fallible" there, but I do hear what you are saying.

_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================

Henbane
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,071
Location: UK

08 May 2011, 1:05 pm

PM wrote:

kladky wrote:

I have a new challenge - convince me. Prove to me that your beliefs are the right ones. Something, at some point, convinced you that this was the right way to go. I want to know what it is.

Read any book by the "Four Horsemen of New Atheism"- Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, or Christopher Hitchens. They all make Well thought-out, complex arguments of why there can be no god and why humanity would not want one.

Here's a random observation that I use in some of my arguments, It takes a woman 20 minutes to reach orgasm, it takes a man 2 minutes, that is pretty solid proof that there is no god.

That observation is wrong in my experience.

It can take a woman 2 minutes to orgasm, or a man 20 minutes. Or, it can take them both as long as they choose if they are concerned with each others needs and pleasure. Those sort of concerns often arise from 'lov[e](ing) one another'.

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

08 May 2011, 1:27 pm

blauSamstag:

Hey, I tried being a christian. Did you ever try being an atheist?

-------------------

I never tried. I naturally WAS an atheist.

Then MOST unsought I was rewritten as a Christian.

But maybe you mean you experienced being a Christian? or did you actually try? And if so why?

Sincere requests for info.

HerrGrimm
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Mar 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 987
Location: United States

08 May 2011, 1:45 pm

kladky wrote:

I asked atheists on WP to explain why they feel they must ridicule Christianity. Most of you answered either that you-

1. believe my beliefs are ridiculous, hence the ridicule or
2. you feel persecuted by Christians and must, I guess, defend yourselves.

I hope you can all agree that I respected your beliefs in that post. Also, I hope that you respect me enough from the replies I made. You can see, I hope, that they are logical and openminded.

I have a new challenge - convince me. Prove to me that your beliefs are the right ones. Something, at some point, convinced you that this was the right way to go. I want to know what it is.

If you look around the threads on this board, I also stated the Koran was an act of plagiarism. I denounced the religious violence in Sri Lanka (although some may disagree with that) and other non-Christian religious acts. It is not just Christianity I am against.

I would like to respond to your post, but first you must prove your branch of Christianity is correct and better than all the other ones (since they are sometimes much different from yours, to the point of committing violence against each other for their differences), including non-Christian ones. Why does YOUR God exist, but the others do not?

_________________
"You just like to go around rebuking people with your ravenous wolf face and snarling commentary." - Ragtime

Last edited by HerrGrimm on 08 May 2011, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

08 May 2011, 1:52 pm

Philologos wrote:

I never tried. I naturally WAS an atheist.

Then MOST unsought I was rewritten as a Christian.

But maybe you mean you experienced being a Christian? or did you actually try? And if so why?

Sincere requests for info.

I grew up in a very religious family and had experiences that, at the time, were very spiritual.

In retrospect, I think i engaged in a lot of magical thinking in an effort to fit in.

Philologos
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Age: 81
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,987

08 May 2011, 3:21 pm

Okay, blauSamstag, that helps.

One step nearer knowing who you are. Almost diametrically opposite my experience - but quite similar to my early years trying to fit in with a fanatical transformational linguistics establishment.

Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

08 May 2011, 3:21 pm

kladky wrote:

Prove to me that your beliefs are the right ones. Something, at some point, convinced you that this was the right way to go. I want to know what it is.

1) I have no beliefs as you would describe them. You assume that the belief in the 'non-belief' is the fundamental characteristic but in truth I don't really care. Rejecting the supernatural does not define me, it is just something that makes complete sense to me. The values I have are probably not dissimilar to yours other than the fact that I don't consider divine inspiration in the equation of my actions or life
2) I have been a lifelong Atheist, it was later in my life that religion was (attempted) introduced to me in a meaningful manner, and I found it uninteresting and pointless

_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do

Last edited by Vigilans on 08 May 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

psychohist
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,623
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

08 May 2011, 3:35 pm

PM wrote:

Complex arguments, yes. Well thought out arguments, not so much. The new atheists are definitely still in the phase where they think they know everything only because they haven't figured out how much they don't know yet.

Page 3 of 31 [ 485 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 31 Next

Jump to:

Atheists - prove it. Post Reply New Topic

Atheists - prove it.