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Christianity and God's Love

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pandabear
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11 Oct 2011, 10:20 pm

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"I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." — Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith".



fermentedketchup
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11 Oct 2011, 11:06 pm

I couldn't agree more. Even though Christianity is Judaism 2.0 with a compassion upgrade, it still leaves a lot to be desired. And never attained, at least not without guilt attached.



OddFinn
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12 Oct 2011, 1:45 am

So, pandabear, you give a quote, but what do you think yourself?


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JakobVirgil
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12 Oct 2011, 10:16 am

pandabear wrote:
Quote:
"I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." — Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith".


Its funny he writes like a sufi.


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ruveyn
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12 Oct 2011, 11:14 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

Its funny he writes like a sufi.


do you think sufis are the only sufis? Human wisdom keeps popping up in all times in all places.

We have all heard it before. Truth is truth.

ruveyn



LiendaBalla
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12 Oct 2011, 11:20 am

That reminds me of when I drove by a beggar the other day. He had "Jesus loves us" written in white on his bag pack. I figured it might have been put there at some point for religious appeal. I thought it was unfortunate that some beggar felt he had to play the believer role to get more then. Well I had nothing on me at the time, and as he walked by I said, with the windows closed "Jesus loves you so much, that you're out in the street, getting sun burns, wearing dirty cloths, and obviously starving." If I mentioned that to mother she would say "There is not a single bird that goes hungry. God takes care of his children." :?



blauSamstag
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12 Oct 2011, 11:36 am

LiendaBalla wrote:
That reminds me of when I drove by a beggar the other day. He had "Jesus loves us" written in white on his bag pack. I figured it might have been put there at some point for religious appeal. I thought it was unfortunate that some beggar felt he had to play the believer role to get more then. Well I had nothing on me at the time, and as he walked by I said, with the windows closed "Jesus loves you so much, that you're out in the street, getting sun burns, wearing dirty cloths, and obviously starving." If I mentioned that to mother she would say "There is not a single bird that goes hungry. God takes care of his children." :?


wow, um, clearly there must be birds that go hungry.

I mean animals go where the food is, right, but if you have a year when for some reason food is available in unusually great abundance, this will inevitably lead to more successful breeding among the birds - more food, so they produce more viable eggs.

By the time these eggs hatch, there is a fair chance that the bounty of food has passed or at least waned, and perhaps there is now not enough food in the area to support the expanded population.

'course, sometimes the mother bird just shoves the chicks out of the nest before they can fly, letting them plunge to their deaths on the ground below, to be eaten by the next passing carnivore.



shrox
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12 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

pandabear wrote:
Quote:
"I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." — Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith".


It only had to be done once. And it was done, so he said "It is done."



Gedrene
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12 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
LiendaBalla wrote:
That reminds me of when I drove by a beggar the other day. He had "Jesus loves us" written in white on his bag pack. I figured it might have been put there at some point for religious appeal. I thought it was unfortunate that some beggar felt he had to play the believer role to get more then. Well I had nothing on me at the time, and as he walked by I said, with the windows closed "Jesus loves you so much, that you're out in the street, getting sun burns, wearing dirty cloths, and obviously starving." If I mentioned that to mother she would say "There is not a single bird that goes hungry. God takes care of his children." :?


wow, um, clearly there must be birds that go hungry.

I mean animals go where the food is, right, but if you have a year when for some reason food is available in unusually great abundance, this will inevitably lead to more successful breeding among the birds - more food, so they produce more viable eggs.

By the time these eggs hatch, there is a fair chance that the bounty of food has passed or at least waned, and perhaps there is now not enough food in the area to support the expanded population.

'course, sometimes the mother bird just shoves the chicks out of the nest before they can fly, letting them plunge to their deaths on the ground below, to be eaten by the next passing carnivore.


Somehow I think you're not a very good ornithologist. Predatorial action tends to keep the population below carrying capacity in reality.



Gedrene
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12 Oct 2011, 12:19 pm

shrox wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Quote:
"I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." — Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith".


It only had to be done once. And it was done, so he said "It is done."


What does that mean?

Seriously.



shrox
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12 Oct 2011, 1:07 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Quote:
"I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being." — Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith".


It only had to be done once. And it was done, so he said "It is done."


What does that mean?

Seriously.


It means that the "blood and suffering" was only given to one man, Jesus.

And the whole quote above basically has it ass backwards, that's one reason I don't post in this section much, many aren't even trying to understand.

The only part that is correct in the above is this: "True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being," Since most don't apply this truth, most choose to not understand.



Lecks
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12 Oct 2011, 1:19 pm

shrox wrote:
It means that the "blood and suffering" was only given to one man, Jesus.

And the whole quote above basically has it ass backwards, that's one reason I don't post in this section much, many aren't even trying to understand.

The only part that is correct in the above is this: "True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being," Since most don't apply this truth, most choose to not understand.

So all the "blood and suffering" others have endured before or after Jesus is meaningless in the eyes of your god?


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Gedrene
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12 Oct 2011, 1:24 pm

shrox wrote:
It means that the "blood and suffering" was only given to one man, Jesus.


No, I actually think you mean all sin was redeemed by Jesus. I don't think Jesus endured all blood and suffering.

shrox wrote:
And the whole quote above basically has it ass backwards, that's one reason I don't post in this section much, many aren't even trying to understand.

No, I don't think you have got...

shrox wrote:
The only part that is correct in the above is this: "True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being," Since most don't apply this truth, most choose to not understand.
... what he meant.

You don't understand him. Why would a loving God send people to hell? There's an example of what was said.

It sounds like you're trying to shoehorn the Panda's words in to saying that he meant to profess a dogma.



Joker
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12 Oct 2011, 2:21 pm

So this post is attacking Christians Jews and Muslims.

I find it funny that so many people, that do not even believe in God, often talk about him more then those who do :lol:

You do not see Christians, talking about what its like to not believe in God.



Lecks
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12 Oct 2011, 2:24 pm

Joker wrote:
So this post is attacking Christians Jews and Muslims.

I find it funny that so many people, that do not even believe in God, often talk about him more then those who do :lol:

You do not see Christians, talking about what its like to not believe in God.

No, you see them talking about how those who don't believe will inevitably be punished for it.

I don't see what's strange about people talking about something that's peculiar to them.


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JakobVirgil
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12 Oct 2011, 2:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:

Its funny he writes like a sufi.


do you think sufis are the only sufis? Human wisdom keeps popping up in all times in all places.

We have all heard it before. Truth is truth.

ruveyn


I mean that the irony is that the same sentiments (he uses to explain his departure from religion)
are said by religious people it explain their faith.
The same feelings in a different context lead to piety.


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?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/