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Does anyone else not believe in feminism?

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abacacus
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29 Jan 2012, 12:14 am

It happens. It's not a super popular view, but there are female supremacists out there.


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hyperlexian
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29 Jan 2012, 12:34 am

abacacus wrote:
It happens. It's not a super popular view, but there are female supremacists out there.

she was asking how feminism as a whole - the entire movement - has become corrupt and focused on "getting even", as LiberalJustice claims. yes that are wacko individuals, but so what? it doesn't make the entire movement corrupt.


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donnie_darko
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29 Jan 2012, 12:36 am

hyperlexian wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It happens. It's not a super popular view, but there are female supremacists out there.

she was asking how feminism as a whole - the entire movement - has become corrupt and focused on "getting even", as LiberalJustice claims. yes that are wacko individuals, but so what? it doesn't make the entire movement corrupt.


You have to admit most feminists probably do feel a little bit vengeful towards males. :wink:



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29 Jan 2012, 12:36 am

donnie_darko wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It happens. It's not a super popular view, but there are female supremacists out there.

she was asking how feminism as a whole - the entire movement - has become corrupt and focused on "getting even", as LiberalJustice claims. yes that are wacko individuals, but so what? it doesn't make the entire movement corrupt.


You have to admit most feminists probably do feel a little bit vengeful towards males. :wink:

no, why would they?


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donnie_darko
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29 Jan 2012, 12:38 am

hyperlexian wrote:
no, why would they?


well for oppressing them? enjoying privilege at their expense? i mean why wouldn't they resent that?



abacacus
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29 Jan 2012, 12:38 am

I can't say the whole movement is about getting even.

Well, it is in a sense, getting even rights with men, but not in a vindictive way.


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29 Jan 2012, 12:39 am

donnie_darko wrote:
You have to admit most feminists probably do feel a little bit vengeful towards males. :wink:


Depends on the type of feminist, I guess.



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29 Jan 2012, 12:39 am

donnie_darko wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, why would they?


well for oppressing them? enjoying privilege at their expense? i mean why wouldn't they resent that?

so you think that it is still uneven, that men enjoy rights that women don't?


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abacacus
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29 Jan 2012, 12:41 am

hyperlexian wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
no, why would they?


well for oppressing them? enjoying privilege at their expense? i mean why wouldn't they resent that?

so you think that it is still uneven, that men enjoy rights that women don't?


Women still on average get paid less than men if I remember correctly.

Many societies still look down on women as well, hence the tendency in some parts of the world to abort female children over male children.


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donnie_darko
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29 Jan 2012, 12:42 am

hyperlexian wrote:
so you think that it is still uneven, that men enjoy rights that women don't?


not really, at least not in our part of Terra (the West). but i was saying if you did believe that was the case, it would only make sense to be a little bit resentful towards men.

actually i would say men and women are both denied certain things and overall which is a greater oppression is more a matter of opinion than a fact.



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29 Jan 2012, 12:45 am

donnie_darko wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
so you think that it is still uneven, that men enjoy rights that women don't?


not really, at least not in our part of Terra (the West). but i was saying if you did believe that was the case, it would only make sense to be a little bit resentful towards men.

actually i would say men and women are both denied certain things and overall which is a greater oppression is more a matter of opinion than a fact.

so then there would be no reason for feeling vengeful.


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Tequila
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29 Jan 2012, 12:48 am

hyperlexian wrote:
so then there would be no reason for feeling vengeful.


Some people just like feeling hard done by though.



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29 Jan 2012, 12:49 am

Tequila wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
so then there would be no reason for feeling vengeful.


Some people just like feeling hard done by though.

are you speaking for yourself? you aren't speaking for me.


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donnie_darko
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29 Jan 2012, 12:50 am

abacacus wrote:

Women still on average get paid less than men if I remember correctly.

Many societies still look down on women as well, hence the tendency in some parts of the world to abort female children over male children.


Hmmmm. Both of the things you said are true, that women on average make less money and that female children are more often aborted (though since most feminists are pro-abortion anyway, is that even relevant?).

However patriarchy is only one theory for explaining those two facts. I think it actually has more to do with dowries and the fact that a female child will cause money to flow out of a family while a son is an asset. I'm not saying that's justified at all, but it's more because of that imo than because of a belief in male superiority. And ultimately, the men in those societies are the losers since it means that there won't be a woman for every man.

As for the pay thing - there have been studies that explain that. It's mostly because of the jobs women tend to choose and the hours they tend to work. Given the same job and same hours, a woman is likely to make just as much money as I would. Maybe at most bias, which I do accept exists against women to some degree in the field of career since traditionally the job was not seen as the 'woman's place', accounts for 5-10% of the 20-30% gap.



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29 Jan 2012, 12:51 am

donnie_darko wrote:
As for the pay thing - there have been studies that explain that. It's mostly because of the jobs women tend to choose and the hours they tend to work. Given the same job and same hours, a woman is likely to make just as much money as I would. Maybe at most bias, which I do accept exists against women to some degree in the field of career since traditionally the job was not seen as the 'woman's place', accounts for 5-10% of the 20-30% gap.

no, you have the studies wrong. women at the same job with the same experience and same education are still likely to get paid less.


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Tequila
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29 Jan 2012, 12:52 am

hyperlexian wrote:
are you speaking for yourself? you aren't speaking for me.


Not I nor you.



Last edited by Tequila on 29 Jan 2012, 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.