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A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if

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ruveyn
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18 Apr 2012, 11:14 am

blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

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18 Apr 2012, 11:36 am

ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


So if someone is harming someone ignorantly is that better than someone who is harming another purposefully? I think Amish need to be woken up. We can't let them live in such ignorance. Nor can we allow them to propagate their ignorance onto future generations. Even they need to be set free.



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18 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

webcam wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.


You still don't understand. If you can't see through religion, you being harmed by it. You need to take a closer look. If you have any questions PM me.
Taking away the religion would not resolve the root problem of poor habits of thinking. Taking away an anthropomorphic deity wouldn't cure the vanity out of which it grows. Taking away the soul would not do the work of training people to distinguish between abstract constructs and concrete reality. If you were to take away the Torah, people would just turn to another source of easy, pithy answers when confronted with a moral dilemma.

Sloth, vanity, sloppiness and cowardice are the root problems associated with religious fundamentalism. If you were to eliminate those problems, religion as it remained would be relatively manageable. Trying to eliminate religion is a waste of resources. As soon as you were to cut off one head, another would take its place. The real monster is something else entirely.

The only viable method of eliminating the harm that seems to be associated with religion is to try to educate people in the dangers of cutting corners in their reasoning or allowing their reasoning to be directed by base motives. It's the only way.



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18 Apr 2012, 11:48 am

ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


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18 Apr 2012, 11:50 am

abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


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18 Apr 2012, 11:59 am

WilliamWDelaney wrote:
webcam wrote:
WilliamWDelaney wrote:
mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Religion has never been the problem. I would ban fundamentalism. On the other hand, relatively organized, moderated versions of religion are not the source of the problem. Some of them, like the LDS Mormons, can be a nuisance toward certain minorities, but they do not act with the unrestrained, unmoderated viciousness and spite of fundamentalist Christians of the ultra-charismatic stripe.

Pentacostals in Middle America are not joking when they talk about a "spiritual war," but they are a growing terrorist threat that we have been ignoring. When they can no longer get their agenda into mainstream politics, they will resort to violence. It is not an if/maybe thing: when they have realized that they no longer rule the roost, they are going to become militant and dangerous, and nothing is being done to prepare for it or to hedge against it. We are going to have the same problem that Central Asia has, which is relatively level-headed religious people and the odd atheist having to contend with a menace to society that is determined to destroy everything they can because they think that it might summon their messiah for them to do so. It's going to get worse.

But no, I would not outright ban religion, just fundamentalism.


You still don't understand. If you can't see through religion, you being harmed by it. You need to take a closer look. If you have any questions PM me.
Taking away the religion would not resolve the root problem of poor habits of thinking. Taking away an anthropomorphic deity wouldn't cure the vanity out of which it grows. Taking away the soul would not do the work of training people to distinguish between abstract constructs and concrete reality. If you were to take away the Torah, people would just turn to another source of easy, pithy answers when confronted with a moral dilemma.

Sloth, vanity, sloppiness and cowardice are the root problems associated with religious fundamentalism. If you were to eliminate those problems, religion as it remained would be relatively manageable. Trying to eliminate religion is a waste of resources. As soon as you were to cut off one head, another would take its place. The real monster is something else entirely.

The only viable method of eliminating the harm that seems to be associated with religion is to try to educate people in the dangers of cutting corners in their reasoning or allowing their reasoning to be directed by base motives. It's the only way.


Immortality would give us all the time we needed to get it all figured out now wouldn't it? So out with religion and in with immortality. Let age and death be a thing of the past. Instead we need to teach this kind of thing in school and assign people with grades that actually reflect how well they are getting it. Ethics should be it's own class from year to year where kids attain color coded rank and status. So when people are behind they know it and can work harder. Religion just makes things worse. Getting every kid through the gates of 'heaven' should take higher priority than segregating them as adults and leading them to death in ignorance. No one should live like that and no system should deny people the experiences of life.



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18 Apr 2012, 12:03 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


at least they urge their youngsters to experience life outside their religion before they chose.


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18 Apr 2012, 12:15 pm

Oodain wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


at least they urge their youngsters to experience life outside their religion before they chose.


But they are still subject to what amounts to being an even greater social pretense than what they experienced in the Amish world. They come out and see Jesus on the 100 foot screen of a mega church and think they are seeing visions from heaven. If what they experience here doesn't cement them into religion... they're gunna be pretty pissed off... They need intervention.



Last edited by webcam on 18 Apr 2012, 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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18 Apr 2012, 12:31 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
abacacus wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
blunnet wrote:
Joker wrote:
Where would you put all of the religious?

Extermination camps.


Apparently anti-religion is your religion.

Shame on you. Why would you harm Amish folk. They are quiet, peaceable, law abiding and generally harmless to the populations in which they live.

ruveyn


The Amish are an example of why one can't really go against *every* religion. I've met several Amish families, and they've all been wonderful people. I don't think any one whose met them could say any wrongs about them.


Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


As you say, that's more them being an isolated and somewhat closed community than them being Amish.


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18 Apr 2012, 3:23 pm

mikecartwright wrote:
America was founded on Christianity therefor Gay Marriage should be illegal in America.


The founding fathers were deists, not Christians. A deist believes in a God, but not in religion.


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18 Apr 2012, 3:42 pm

mikecartwright wrote:
A question for Atheists would you ban or outlaw Religion if you could ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism


No. What other people choose to believe is their own business, unless & until they try to force it upon others. With that in mind, I have no more reluctance to criticise a religious belief that is presented than I do any other unsupported or questionable belief. I won't go out of my way to do it, but if someone opens the door on their own by presenting a belief, I'll stroll through without reservation.



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18 Apr 2012, 3:48 pm

Absolutely not. ALL people have a right to their beliefs, so long as those beliefs don't harm others. Yes, an absolute separation of church and state would be ideal...but BANNING religion? I'm appalled by anyone who complains about the religious right but who would behave the same way by excluding those who don't share their beliefs, or lack thereof.

For the record, I'm not an atheist, but I don't subscribe to organized religion.


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18 Apr 2012, 3:55 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:

Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


You are in no position to tell others how to bring up their children.

You bring up yours, your way and others will bring of theirs, their way.

ruveyn



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18 Apr 2012, 3:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:

Well, aside from the systemic abuse and brain-washing of their children, but that's less a symptom of them being Amish and more a symptom of communities nestled away in rural areas on general.


You are in no position to tell others how to bring up their children.

You bring up yours, your way and others will bring of theirs, their way.

ruveyn


Do you say the same of people who bring up their children with frequent beatings?


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18 Apr 2012, 3:59 pm

abacacus wrote:

Do you say the same of people who bring up their children with frequent beatings?


Physical abuse is one thing. Taking the kids to church is another.

ruveyn



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18 Apr 2012, 4:10 pm

ruveyn wrote:
abacacus wrote:

Do you say the same of people who bring up their children with frequent beatings?


Physical abuse is one thing. Taking the kids to church is another.

ruveyn


yet we can all agree there exists psychological abuse as well.

should we ignore that?
this can be taken to the extremes and that is beyond doubt (serial killer frightening his children into submission) but the debate is equally valid in the greyer areas, not easy bt it is there.


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