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I have converted to atheism

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ValentineWiggin
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03 Apr 2012, 11:49 am

snapcap wrote:

You believe that I'm telling people what they can and cannot believe. I'm going to presume that it's safe to say that you believe that your belief that you have a non-position.

Well, I'm not sure if that is what an atheist is. Seem kind of contradicting.

The meanings of words aren't subject to your feelings about them- "atheist" describes someone who lacks a god belief. Any affirmative beliefs they have about the concept are subsets of atheism. "...believe that your belief that you have a non-position" isn't even a SENSICAL PHRASE. No matter what way you try to phrase it, a lack of belief is not a belief.


snapcap wrote:

"He is making statements that tell people that they can't believe that they have no belief."



Who said this?

It certainly wasn't me.


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03 Apr 2012, 11:57 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
He's making declarations about what others can and cannot believe


This is what you said.

And the subject of debate is whether atheists are right when they say they have a lack of belief.

So connecting the two, it means that you think I'm making declarations about what others can and cannot believe (having a lack of belief)


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ValentineWiggin
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03 Apr 2012, 12:13 pm

snapcap wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
He's making declarations about what others can and cannot believe


This is what you said.

And the subject of debate is whether atheists are right when they say they have a lack of belief.

No, it is you who is "debating" that,
and everyone else is telling you "I know the contents of my head better than you do, silly-billy."
snapcap wrote:
So connecting the two, it means that you think I'm making declarations about what others can and cannot believe (having a lack of belief)

You're making declarations about whether a lack of belief is possible.

"What others can and cannot believe" refers to the substance of a posited idea.


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03 Apr 2012, 12:49 pm

You can believe it if you want, but I'm demonstrating that it is incorrect to believe that you have a lack of belief.

You can believe it regardless of what I say, but I'm still going to tear down the notion because it's silly.


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03 Apr 2012, 1:21 pm

Oodain wrote:
Alexender wrote:
All snapcap is saying is that everything is a belief. Your nonbelief is your belief. Discussion over

but saying that is as meaningless and inane as saying we are all human,

he may be correct but as a point or an argument it is literally nothing, at all.

so sure that may be his position but if so why spend time discussing it, i dont think it is, he claimed multiple times that he doesnt believe there exists weak atheism,.


Quote:
You can believe it regardless of what I say, but I'm still going to tear down the notion because it's silly.


can the same not be said of your notion?


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03 Apr 2012, 1:30 pm

Oodain wrote:
Oodain wrote:
Alexender wrote:
All snapcap is saying is that everything is a belief. Your nonbelief is your belief. Discussion over

but saying that is as meaningless and inane as saying we are all human,

he may be correct but as a point or an argument it is literally nothing, at all.

so sure that may be his position but if so why spend time discussing it, i dont think it is, he claimed multiple times that he doesnt believe there exists weak atheism,.


Quote:
You can believe it regardless of what I say, but I'm still going to tear down the notion because it's silly.


can the same not be said of your notion?


Why would I? I'll never buy into the notion that people have psychic shields that protect them from arbitrary notions from entering the brain to be processed and considered.

You may think that it doesn't change much, but I think it does.

Freeing atheists from thinking they are like sticks and stones is just a single change.


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03 Apr 2012, 1:34 pm

snapcap wrote:
Oodain wrote:
Oodain wrote:
Alexender wrote:
All snapcap is saying is that everything is a belief. Your nonbelief is your belief. Discussion over

but saying that is as meaningless and inane as saying we are all human,

he may be correct but as a point or an argument it is literally nothing, at all.

so sure that may be his position but if so why spend time discussing it, i dont think it is, he claimed multiple times that he doesnt believe there exists weak atheism,.


Quote:
You can believe it regardless of what I say, but I'm still going to tear down the notion because it's silly.


can the same not be said of your notion?


Why would I? I'll never buy into the notion that people have psychic shields that protect them from arbitrary notions from entering the brain to be processed and considered.

You may think that it doesn't change much, but I think it does.

Freeing atheists from thinking they are like sticks and stones is just a single change.


all of that shield buisness (while i do recognize the argument that we all hold an opinion as true) is utter nonsense.

opinion is not affirmed belief and pretending it is, is a "silly notion" as you put it.


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03 Apr 2012, 1:48 pm

Oodain wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Oodain wrote:
Oodain wrote:
Alexender wrote:
All snapcap is saying is that everything is a belief. Your nonbelief is your belief. Discussion over

but saying that is as meaningless and inane as saying we are all human,

he may be correct but as a point or an argument it is literally nothing, at all.

so sure that may be his position but if so why spend time discussing it, i dont think it is, he claimed multiple times that he doesnt believe there exists weak atheism,.


Quote:
You can believe it regardless of what I say, but I'm still going to tear down the notion because it's silly.


can the same not be said of your notion?


Why would I? I'll never buy into the notion that people have psychic shields that protect them from arbitrary notions from entering the brain to be processed and considered.

You may think that it doesn't change much, but I think it does.

Freeing atheists from thinking they are like sticks and stones is just a single change.


all of that shield buisness (while i do recognize the argument that we all hold an opinion as true) is utter nonsense.

opinion is not affirmed belief and pretending it is, is a "silly notion" as you put it.


The silly notion is that you don't have a belief either way concerning the existence of God. So far, I don't' see anything that says it's not a silly notion.

Now you want to replace the word belief with opinion. Do some atheists really have a disdain for that word, "belief"?


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03 Apr 2012, 3:06 pm

This rhetoric is depressing. You might sell this to Fox News viewers or anyone who starts trembling with rage and butthurt at the word "atheist" but it won't work on reasonable people. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what my beliefs are, since you know them so much better than I do


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03 Apr 2012, 3:18 pm

Vigilans wrote:
This rhetoric is depressing. You might sell this to Fox News viewers or anyone who starts trembling with rage and butthurt at the word "atheist" but it won't work on reasonable people. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what my beliefs are, since you know them so much better than I do


Your belief: "This stick is just like me!"

:lol:


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03 Apr 2012, 3:28 pm

snapcap wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
This rhetoric is depressing. You might sell this to Fox News viewers or anyone who starts trembling with rage and butthurt at the word "atheist" but it won't work on reasonable people. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what my beliefs are, since you know them so much better than I do


Your belief: "This stick is just like me!"

:lol:


This is getting really stupid now. Neither this little quip nor your last actually had anything to do with what anyone has said. I might as well be posting to smarterchild right now


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ValentineWiggin
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03 Apr 2012, 5:01 pm

snapcap wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
This rhetoric is depressing. You might sell this to Fox News viewers or anyone who starts trembling with rage and butthurt at the word "atheist" but it won't work on reasonable people. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what my beliefs are, since you know them so much better than I do


Your belief: "This stick is just like me!"

:lol:


I have no problem saying sticks lack beliefs in god. Rocks lack belief in neo-liberalism, trees in feminism, and hydrangeas generally don't have a position on metaphysics.

But let's cut all the crap about brains needing to be "shielded" from concepts.
They don't.
We're talking about a concept being considered by someone, and the conclusion being not "yay" or "nay", but "NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION".
That you, yourself, don't think this way, and can't comprehend it, says nothing of everyone else.

Also, enough with the constantly trying to rephrase my lack of belief as a "belief", IE, I only "believe" I have a lack of belief.
I know precisely what I believe, and don't believe.


YOU, sir, don't.


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03 Apr 2012, 5:19 pm

If I ever met God I would feel like an ape.



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03 Apr 2012, 6:13 pm

webcam wrote:
Joker wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:
Man he is even bugging me now and I am not even a atheist with all the new information I have learned about them I at least know what their views are but yeah he isnt making any since at all. :lol:


Explain. Don't post whore either. :)


What I mean is you can't keep saying that atheist have a need or dont need to have a opinon or belief in God most of them are aganostic they dont believe in god but dont rule out that their could be a god or diety but they reqiure evifence to support such claims you see we as religious have faith when your agnostic their is no reason to have faith because it is irrelivant and not important faith is believeing with out seeing sometihing aganostics dont do they have to have proof to believe in such things with no proof they will take the concept of god as a very little possibility of him being real.


How about, we don't believe in any of the religion gods? Does that work for you? How about I believe in a god and/or creator, but he has nothing to do with your holy book or any other part of your religion. Does that also work? Or do they mean I still believe in something that means I need to adopt the religious form of argument and can't just say exactly what I mean without being an outsider? Does those statements mean I am somehow closer to your god?


This statement was not a attack I was telling Snapcap/smart ass something.



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03 Apr 2012, 9:18 pm

Joker wrote:

What I mean is you can't keep saying that atheist have a need or dont need to have a opinon or belief in God most of them are aganostic they dont believe in god but dont rule out that their could be a god or diety but they reqiure evifence to support such claims you see we as religious have faith when your agnostic their is no reason to have faith because it is irrelivant and not important faith is believeing with out seeing sometihing aganostics dont do they have to have proof to believe in such things with no proof they will take the concept of god as a very little possibility of him being real.


They can be agnostic as well as atheist, and they can hold one higher than the other. What about if someone said they were religious growing up, became atheist as they got older, then became an agnostic, and then became religious again, until their death. Your saying that they went from a belief, to a non-belief, to another position of non-belief, back to belief. Don't you think it's a little silly to say that they really had a non-position regarding the existence of God in the years they didn't believe? They could have potentially flip-flopped their belief a dozen times. Isn't it absurd to say that at some point in their life, they didn't have a position. I don't see how it's possible after the fact they were exposed to the idea. No one can claim to have a complete lack of belief.

Belief can be had without knowledge.


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03 Apr 2012, 9:23 pm

snapcap wrote:
Joker wrote:

What I mean is you can't keep saying that atheist have a need or dont need to have a opinon or belief in God most of them are aganostic they dont believe in god but dont rule out that their could be a god or diety but they reqiure evifence to support such claims you see we as religious have faith when your agnostic their is no reason to have faith because it is irrelivant and not important faith is believeing with out seeing sometihing aganostics dont do they have to have proof to believe in such things with no proof they will take the concept of god as a very little possibility of him being real.


They can be agnostic as well as atheist, and they can hold one higher than the other. What about if someone said they were religious growing up, became atheist as they got older, then became an agnostic, and then became religious again, until their death. Your saying that they went from a belief, to a non-belief, to another position of non-belief, back to belief. Don't you think it's a little silly to say that they really had a non-position regarding the existence of God in the years they didn't believe? They could have potentially flip-flopped their belief a dozen times. Isn't it absurd to say that at some point in their life, they didn't have a position. I don't see how it's possible after the fact they were exposed to the idea. No one can claim to have a complete lack of belief.

Belief can be had without knowledge.


Okay why would some one have certin beleifs with no knowledge of what they believe that makes no sense at all :lol: