Jesus, Christians, and the world
13 Apr 2012, 1:56 pm
01001011 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
"Christianity was not responsible for all of the atrocities done in its name, because all of those people were fake Christians!! !" -Christians hundreds of years later
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
You'd make a great point here -- if there were no manual people could reference on how to be a Christian.
Jesus: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matt 5:44)
Jesus' doctrines are in a Book that virtually everyone has access to, so being wilfully blind as to what a Christian is, and then assuming that only the most evil of the those in all of history who called themselves "Christians" were the real Christians, is obviously a total intentional bias aimed at a pre-determined conclusion. You get out of analysis what you put into it. If you want to see Christians as evil, you will, even when Jesus said His true followers love everyone and behave very well indeed.
We have a book that is a bunch of nonsense that people can interpreted whethever they like. Any analysis is just as baised as the others.
Point out the nonsense. Verse by verse.
13 Apr 2012, 1:57 pm
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
01001011 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
"Christianity was not responsible for all of the atrocities done in its name, because all of those people were fake Christians!! !" -Christians hundreds of years later
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
You'd make a great point here -- if there were no manual people could reference on how to be a Christian.
Jesus: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matt 5:44)
Jesus' doctrines are in a Book that virtually everyone has access to, so being wilfully blind as to what a Christian is, and then assuming that only the most evil of the those in all of history who called themselves "Christians" were the real Christians, is obviously a total intentional bias aimed at a pre-determined conclusion. You get out of analysis what you put into it. If you want to see Christians as evil, you will, even when Jesus said His true followers love everyone and behave very well indeed.
We have a book that is a bunch of nonsense that people can interpreted whethever they like. Any analysis is just as baised as the others.
Okay. You're being obtuse. We get it. Congratulations on not seeing.
You are clearly interpreting your fairytales differently than other Christians on this forum. Are you the only real Christian? Based on your past statements, I would say your answer would be "Yes" if you choose to answer that at all
You were asked not to deride others beliefs in the manner in which you have. You'll stoop to anything it seems...
Joker
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
13 Apr 2012, 2:06 pm
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
01001011 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
"Christianity was not responsible for all of the atrocities done in its name, because all of those people were fake Christians!! !" -Christians hundreds of years later
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
You'd make a great point here -- if there were no manual people could reference on how to be a Christian.
Jesus: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matt 5:44)
Jesus' doctrines are in a Book that virtually everyone has access to, so being wilfully blind as to what a Christian is, and then assuming that only the most evil of the those in all of history who called themselves "Christians" were the real Christians, is obviously a total intentional bias aimed at a pre-determined conclusion. You get out of analysis what you put into it. If you want to see Christians as evil, you will, even when Jesus said His true followers love everyone and behave very well indeed.
We have a book that is a bunch of nonsense that people can interpreted whethever they like. Any analysis is just as baised as the others.
Okay. You're being obtuse. We get it. Congratulations on not seeing.
You are clearly interpreting your fairytales differently than other Christians on this forum. Are you the only real Christian? Based on your past statements, I would say your answer would be "Yes" if you choose to answer that at all
You were asked not to deride others beliefs in the manner in which you have. You'll stoop to anything it seems...
At least I will not stoop to such lows I have no problem with anyones belief or non religious beleif.
13 Apr 2012, 2:38 pm
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
01001011 wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
"Christianity was not responsible for all of the atrocities done in its name, because all of those people were fake Christians!! !" -Christians hundreds of years later
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
I'm betting a few hundred years from now, a great deal of Christians will say the same thing about the Christians of this time
You'd make a great point here -- if there were no manual people could reference on how to be a Christian.
Jesus: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." (Matt 5:44)
Jesus' doctrines are in a Book that virtually everyone has access to, so being wilfully blind as to what a Christian is, and then assuming that only the most evil of the those in all of history who called themselves "Christians" were the real Christians, is obviously a total intentional bias aimed at a pre-determined conclusion. You get out of analysis what you put into it. If you want to see Christians as evil, you will, even when Jesus said His true followers love everyone and behave very well indeed.
We have a book that is a bunch of nonsense that people can interpreted whethever they like. Any analysis is just as baised as the others.
Okay. You're being obtuse. We get it. Congratulations on not seeing.
You are clearly interpreting your fairytales differently than other Christians on this forum. Are you the only real Christian? Based on your past statements, I would say your answer would be "Yes" if you choose to answer that at all
You were asked not to deride others beliefs in the manner in which you have. You'll stoop to anything it seems...
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
14 Apr 2012, 9:39 am
Joker wrote:
I would have to say he has a lot of passion but I am like a mulsim for example I refuse to go into deep detail about my faith because people will attack me for it as seen in other threads.
You certainly have to do what you feel is right. But any attacks you get on your faith here will ultimately have little consequence in the grand scheme of things. I don't think you should post an entire book on your faith in here, but you shouldn't let those who believe differently dissuade you from describing what you believe.
My attitude is that any belief not worth questioning is a belief not worth having. As a personal rule, I tend to avoid getting lured into discussions by fellow believers whose doctrinal influences aren't too far removed from my own. The reason being I think it's more important for those of us who are faithful to at least make a show of unity. But even if someone claims to be a Christian and expresses views that seem heretical or unorthodox to me, not to mention faulty reasoning, I'll attack those views at length just as much as I've attacked false claims against our faith from unbelievers.
A lot of what I've seen from Christians has mostly been right on track. Even if your beliefs come under attack and you don't know how to respond, all it means is that you're just missing a part of the picture. Turn the computer off for a few hours, search for relevant scriptural passages, come back, do a little research, and whatever answer it is you're missing will eventually become pretty obvious to you. I haven't abandoned my faith at all since I've started posting here, but I've enjoyed the challenges and am happy that I've gotten a little bit deeper into this whole faith thing. I think it's a shame it's taken me some 20 years to get here in my faith, but it's a great place to be. Don't give up.
14 Apr 2012, 12:01 pm
shrox wrote:
Point out the nonsense. Verse by verse.
By nonsense I mean the bible is too vague to have any useful content. As Vigilans pointed out, either Ragtime's interpretation is the only valid one or not, if the bible were concrete.
Would you open an astrology column and point out the nonsense paragraph by paragraph?
14 Apr 2012, 12:26 pm
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
14 Apr 2012, 12:37 pm
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,796
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
14 Apr 2012, 12:40 pm
AngelRho wrote:
Joker wrote:
I would have to say he has a lot of passion but I am like a mulsim for example I refuse to go into deep detail about my faith because people will attack me for it as seen in other threads.
You certainly have to do what you feel is right. But any attacks you get on your faith here will ultimately have little consequence in the grand scheme of things. I don't think you should post an entire book on your faith in here, but you shouldn't let those who believe differently dissuade you from describing what you believe.
My attitude is that any belief not worth questioning is a belief not worth having. As a personal rule, I tend to avoid getting lured into discussions by fellow believers whose doctrinal influences aren't too far removed from my own. The reason being I think it's more important for those of us who are faithful to at least make a show of unity. But even if someone claims to be a Christian and expresses views that seem heretical or unorthodox to me, not to mention faulty reasoning, I'll attack those views at length just as much as I've attacked false claims against our faith from unbelievers.
A lot of what I've seen from Christians has mostly been right on track. Even if your beliefs come under attack and you don't know how to respond, all it means is that you're just missing a part of the picture. Turn the computer off for a few hours, search for relevant scriptural passages, come back, do a little research, and whatever answer it is you're missing will eventually become pretty obvious to you. I haven't abandoned my faith at all since I've started posting here, but I've enjoyed the challenges and am happy that I've gotten a little bit deeper into this whole faith thing. I think it's a shame it's taken me some 20 years to get here in my faith, but it's a great place to be. Don't give up.
Or leave the computer on - just hunt the internet for the theological answers you seek.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
AngelRho
Veteran
Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile
14 Apr 2012, 10:31 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or leave the computer on - just hunt the internet for the theological answers you seek.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Good advice as long as a person is mature enough to keep a cool head and stay calm enough to look precisely for the answers he needs at the moment. In my experience the answers have usually been fairly straightforward and obvious. The issue is that people are often very sensitive when it comes to theology and emotionally don't handle attacks on faith very well. Things like that are easier to handle if one can step away from the situation and approach it again from a better or different perspective.
15 Apr 2012, 2:12 pm
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
You said fairytales. You have to prove fairies then.
15 Apr 2012, 2:14 pm
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
You said fairytales. You have to prove fairies then.
Fairytale is a general term for childish stories that involve magic and other impossibilities. Fairies do not have to take part
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
15 Apr 2012, 2:24 pm
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
You said fairytales. You have to prove fairies then.
Fairytale is a general term for childish stories that involve magic and other impossibilities. Fairies do not have to take part
I wanted to see the fairies...aren't they tiny hot chicks with wings and scanty dresses?
15 Apr 2012, 2:26 pm
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
You said fairytales. You have to prove fairies then.
Fairytale is a general term for childish stories that involve magic and other impossibilities. Fairies do not have to take part
I wanted to see the fairies...aren't they tiny hot chicks with wings and scanty dresses?
Eh... maybe in some definitions. Some are rather unpleasant
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
15 Apr 2012, 2:31 pm
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
shrox wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Nobody ever asked me that. Calling the Bible fairytales is not all that derisive since that is essentially what it is. Additionally Ragtime's "beliefs" are derisive of basically any contradiction but I do not see you raising issue with that
Fine, show me the fairies...
Talking snake, burning bushes that speak, Eve being made from a rib, resurrection, parting of the Red Sea, immaculate conception, every species living near Noah's house (and fitting on his boat)... etc
You said fairytales. You have to prove fairies then.
Fairytale is a general term for childish stories that involve magic and other impossibilities. Fairies do not have to take part
I wanted to see the fairies...aren't they tiny hot chicks with wings and scanty dresses?
Eh... maybe in some definitions. Some are rather unpleasant
Oh, I am glad you didn't point out the fairies then. Disney might have been upset.
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