The Thirty Years' War
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
20 Apr 2012, 11:42 pm
Was a religious war between Protestant I am a methodist that makes me a Protestant and .Catholic btw Catholics do not view Protestants as Christian we are viewed the same as atheists in their eyes. Any way here is a link talking about the Thirty Year's War.
http://www.strategos.demon.co.uk/tywhome/
What are your thoughts on The Thirty Year's War? Do you find it strange that two groups that have similar beliefs and read the same book are often so violent and hostile to eachother I mean just look at the violent bloody history between.
Protestants and Catholics.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 1:07 am
The Thirty Years War had been arguably the first total war, as all resources had been thrown into the conflict, and the destruction of civilian populations was considered a goal. While the war had started between Protestants and Catholics, France - a Catholic country which was persecuting their own Protestant minority - had entered the war on the side of the German and Swedish Protestants for the purely political motive of defeating their Austrian Hapsburg rivals.
There had been nothing glorious about this war. Both sides had committed indefensible atrocities, motivated by a growing religious fanaticism. But the funny thing is, like any religious conflict, religion is only a pretext - but is the bloodiest and cruelest sort of war. In the end, Germany - where the war had been largely fought in - had seen its population drop by millions, turned into a society of armed camps, and was thrown back culturally at least two hundred years. While the big winners were the Swedes and French, the Germans - Protestant or Catholic - were the big losers. If there was truly a watershed in German history, in which political absolutism and xenophobia took direction of Germany's destiny, and led to Hitler and the Holocaust, this was doubtlessly it.
My Dad had passed stories down to me that had been passed down to him about the Thirty Years War, in which there was no memory of glorious victories, or right conquering wrong, but of dislocated populations, disease, and starvation leading to the horrors of cannibalism.
Better that people had learned to live together, and avoided that whole horrible mess.
For what it's worth, my Dad's people after the war had immigrated from Saxony to the Kraichgau (modern day northwest Baden-Wurttemberg), as immigration with Germany was common for refugees or people who had no reason to remain where they were, to do.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 1:17 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Thirty Years War had been arguably the first total war, as all resources had been thrown into the conflict, and no distinction had been made between civilians and soldiers. While the war had started between Protestants and Catholics, France - a Catholic country which was persecuting their own Protestant minority - had entered the war on the side of the German and Swedish Protestants for the purely political motive of defeating their Austrian Hapsburg rivals.
There had been nothing glorious about this war. Both sides had committed indefensible atrocities, motivated by a growing religious fanaticism. But the funny thing is, like any religious conflict, religion is only a pretext - but is the bloodiest sort of war. In the end, Germany - where the war had been largely fought in - had seen its population drop by millions, turned into a society of armed camps, and was thrown back culturally at least two hundred years. While the big winners were the Swedes and French, the Germans - Protestant or Catholic - were the big losers. If there was truly a watershed in German history, in which political absolutism and xenophobia took direction of Germany's destiny, and lead to Hitler and the Holocaust, this was doubtlessly it.
My Dad had passed stories to me that had been passed down to him about the Thirty Years War, in which there was no memory of glorious victories, or right conquering wrong, but of dislocate populations, disease, and starvation leading to the horrors of cannibalism.
Better that people had learned to live together, and avoided that whole horrible mess.
For what it's worth, my Dad's people after the war had immigrated from Saxony to the Kraichgau (modern day northwest Baden-Wurttemberg), as immigration with Germany was common for refugees or people who had no reason to remain where they were to do.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
There had been nothing glorious about this war. Both sides had committed indefensible atrocities, motivated by a growing religious fanaticism. But the funny thing is, like any religious conflict, religion is only a pretext - but is the bloodiest sort of war. In the end, Germany - where the war had been largely fought in - had seen its population drop by millions, turned into a society of armed camps, and was thrown back culturally at least two hundred years. While the big winners were the Swedes and French, the Germans - Protestant or Catholic - were the big losers. If there was truly a watershed in German history, in which political absolutism and xenophobia took direction of Germany's destiny, and lead to Hitler and the Holocaust, this was doubtlessly it.
My Dad had passed stories to me that had been passed down to him about the Thirty Years War, in which there was no memory of glorious victories, or right conquering wrong, but of dislocate populations, disease, and starvation leading to the horrors of cannibalism.
Better that people had learned to live together, and avoided that whole horrible mess.
For what it's worth, my Dad's people after the war had immigrated from Saxony to the Kraichgau (modern day northwest Baden-Wurttemberg), as immigration with Germany was common for refugees or people who had no reason to remain where they were to do.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Looks like are familys both immagrated to Saxon my family tree had exscaped the coutries that where under Catholic rule and came to Germany then they immagrated many years later to America on my mothers side of the family they immagrated from Ireland to avoid the war going on over their.
And yes it all was a war of religious fanaticism between both sides neither being right a pointless conflict that was fough and so many people lost their lives becasue of it when Religion didn't play as big of a role as people thought it did when it was a politcal battle more then a religious one.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 1:29 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 1:46 am
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 1:58 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Seems like are family history is similar how very interesting my step granfather is a Babtist and even though their viewed as proestant by Catholics he has a lot of anti-methdoist views and doens't think women should preach in church.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 2:05 am
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Seems like are family history is similar how very interesting my step granfather is a Babtist and even though their viewed as proestant by Catholics he has a lot of anti-methdoist views and doens't think women should preach in church.
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 2:10 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Seems like are family history is similar how very interesting my step granfather is a Babtist and even though their viewed as proestant by Catholics he has a lot of anti-methdoist views and doens't think women should preach in church.
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I was raised in a Babtist church but me and my mother both became memmebers of my current church Hopewell United Methidost Church HUMC. It is jugdment free family friendly and we do a lot of humanitarian work I have never really gotten along with the catholics in my family. It is more of a political issue then a religious one I am a right-wing politically and left-wing on social issues. They seem to think that is a oxymoron but ignorance is bliss.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 2:17 am
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Seems like are family history is similar how very interesting my step granfather is a Babtist and even though their viewed as proestant by Catholics he has a lot of anti-methdoist views and doens't think women should preach in church.
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I was raised in a Babtist church but me and my mother both became memmebers of my current church Hopewell United Methidost Church HUMC. It is jugdment free family friendly and we do a lot of humanitarian work I have never really gotten along with the catholics in my family. It is more of a political issue then a religious one I am a right-wing politically and left-wing on social issues. They seem to think that is a oxymoron but ignorance is bliss.
The religious right has spread the notion that your political stance has to be reflective of social issues. And unfortunately, they have bought into their own BS.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 2:25 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Joker wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Your family history sounds interesting.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
It is on my father's side their native american/Cherokee on my mother's side their Irish and German.
Now combine all of them together and it makes for one interesting family reuinon and conflict.
My Mom's Mother is not a fan of Catholics while her ex husband my biological granfather is Catholic and so is his second wife and their two children which happen to be my mothers half brother and sister making them my aunt an uncle.
Their is a lot of culture and religious conflict in my family and family history.
My Mom's maternal Grandmother had been a fanatical Bavarian Catholic who had spent so much of her time praying in church that her priest had to tell her to go home to care for her family. And so, it's no big surprise that she opposed the marriage between her son, and my maternal Grandmother, as she was a Prussian Lutheran, and so had been absolutely certain that he would be turned into a Protestant. As it turns out, my Grandpa had had little interest in religion, and so told my Grandma to take my Mom and her sisters to her Lutheran church. And thus, my Mom was raised Protestant, much to the chagrin of her Grandmother.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Seems like are family history is similar how very interesting my step granfather is a Babtist and even though their viewed as proestant by Catholics he has a lot of anti-methdoist views and doens't think women should preach in church.
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
I was raised in a Babtist church but me and my mother both became memmebers of my current church Hopewell United Methidost Church HUMC. It is jugdment free family friendly and we do a lot of humanitarian work I have never really gotten along with the catholics in my family. It is more of a political issue then a religious one I am a right-wing politically and left-wing on social issues. They seem to think that is a oxymoron but ignorance is bliss.
The religious right has spread the notion that your political stance has to be reflective of social issues. And unfortunately, they have bought into their own BS.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Yes which is so sad I am not a fan of the christian right sure I am some one that has a thing for law and order but. My faith and poltical views do not coexist together because they are seperate as for being a right-winger I am when it comes to the military law and order. I am left-wing on everything else.
So I guess that makes me a independent I am a strong independent I might add having a mix political ideology with a lot of diffrent poltical points of view from the right and left wing poltical thought,
21 Apr 2012, 9:43 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Does being a member of a Church founded by a flaming foam at the mouth anti-semite ever bother you?
ruveyn
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
21 Apr 2012, 1:50 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Does being a member of a Church founded by a flaming foam at the mouth anti-semite ever bother you?
ruveyn
I don't speak for Kraichgauer but he likes his church.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 3:11 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Most of my Lutheran relatives on both sides of the family belong to the more liberal Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), while my immediate family had raised me in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. But despite the fact that relations between the leadership of both Lutheran branches haven't always been friendly, that's never been a problem within my family - thankfully.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Does being a member of a Church founded by a flaming foam at the mouth anti-semite ever bother you?
ruveyn
I think I've discussed this matter with you more than enough that I no longer need to address it.
All that matters to me is that my denomination comes across as sane when compared to many other faiths (especially in its American incarnation), and who perceives God as loving and forgiving.
I seriously think you need to look at yourself in the mirror concerning your own hostility toward people who have never done you any wrong.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
21 Apr 2012, 4:56 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think I've discussed this matter with you more than enough that I no longer need to address it.
All that matters to me is that my denomination comes across as sane when compared to many other faiths (especially in its American incarnation), and who perceives God as loving and forgiving.
I seriously think you need to look at yourself in the mirror concerning your own hostility toward people who have never done you any wrong.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Anti-Semites like Luther made life hard for my people in his day, and his attitude still make life hard for me and my people in my day. Martin Luther was pure sh*t as a human being. When you Lutheran folk repudiate Martin Luther's hatred of the Jews publicly it will be a better day you your folks.
He does get full credit for breaking the monopoly of Rome on the Christianity of Europe.
There are two things I generally do not do. One is forget and the other is forgive.
ruveyn
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,798
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
21 Apr 2012, 5:07 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think I've discussed this matter with you more than enough that I no longer need to address it.
All that matters to me is that my denomination comes across as sane when compared to many other faiths (especially in its American incarnation), and who perceives God as loving and forgiving.
I seriously think you need to look at yourself in the mirror concerning your own hostility toward people who have never done you any wrong.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Anti-Semites like Luther made life hard for my people in his day, and his attitude still make life hard for me and my people in my day. Martin Luther was pure sh*t as a human being. When you Lutheran folk repudiate Martin Luther's hatred of the Jews publicly it will be a better day you your folks.
He does get full credit for breaking the monopoly of Rome on the Christianity of Europe.
There are two things I generally do not do. One is forget and the other is forgive.
ruveyn
As a matter of fact if you had cared to check, all Lutheran churches in America, Canada, and Germany have made public statements repudiating Luther's Anti-Semitic writings. I suggest you check your sources before you write such an incendiary post.
And I strongly get the impression that you think modern Lutherans hold Luther's Anti-Semitic feelings. If so, other than for a tiny minority, you are dead wrong.
And as this thread is about the Thirty Years War, I can tell you in all truthfulness, Catholicism had made life for my people hard, but I hardly hold this against Catholics today. And since when has any Lutheran ever attacked you personally?
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| took 4 years |
20 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm |
| Why we have leap years. |
14 Apr 2024, 5:21 pm |
| No Ice Possible in the Arctic Sea Within the Next 10 Years |
05 Mar 2024, 8:48 pm |
| Starting a New Job in Four Years |
04 Apr 2024, 8:18 pm |
