Great wars past and present.

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Why do you think my ancestors left Germany?
My maternal Grandmother - though always one to be proud of her German roots - had said the country her parents had left was "terrible."

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

That disaster at Sarajevo uncorked all the insanity and instability the existed for centuries in Europe. Europe has been a screwed up place since the collapse of the Roman Imperium. They never really learned how to live peacefully. That is why there was a 100 years war that lasted 116 years and a 30 years war. Europeans like to look down their noses at the United States. The U.S. had really only one Really Bad War since independence and that was the Civil War. Once done we got it out of our systems and learned to live in peace, at least internally. The Europeans never really achieved that prior to WW II. Europe has peace now (1) because the U.S. saved there sorry arses and (2) the collapse of the Soviet Union. By themselves the Europeans would never have found a peaceful modus vivendi.

ruveyn

The fundamental difference between Europe and the USA is that Europeans see themselves as different peoples. Wars in Europe were Foreign Policy and not internal conflicts.
Another fundamental difference is that big barbarian invasions happened until the year 1237 (Mongols).

I think that the US isn't as peaceful as you wrote in your post. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... operations. I'm sure that more than one of all the wars and military operations was bad.

Also the attempts to unite Europe are not really American Ideas. Western European politicans realized around the years 1950-1970 that they should work together.
for example the friendship treaty between Germany and France. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lys%C3%A9e_Treaty
We learned now to live peacefully.

If theoretically Americans with the technology of the year 1700 but splitted up in severall countries would colonize an almost uninhabited Europe, than I could post to you: America is a screwed up place with to much wars and Europe is much more better.

That is a wrong interpretation. After Fachoda, actually, France and Britain reconciled on colonial matters (the famous Entente cordiale), a first step towards military alliance. By 1914, there was little left of the old hostility.


America have it better because they have acquired practical dominion over the American continent. Also, they had the luck of only fighting Indians with backwards weapons, which generally meant that the Indians lost most of the time in war, and were massacred violently in peace. Chronic genocide is not what I call a "peaceful modus vivendi".

Once the Fascists were eliminated. It required the Brits, led by a drunken imperialist (Churchill) and the Americans to save the sorry asses of the Europeans. Once the Fascists were put down and the U.S. rescued Europe economically (Marshall Plan) finally the Europeans got some of their sh*t straightened out. But not all. Look at the buzz with Greece and Spain. Germany seems to be the only sensible nation in Europe at this juncture.

ruveyn

Germany as of now is also the dominat European country they had the largest population and economy but I dislike their Angela Merkel.

Oh, boy! I can't resist ripping this one to shreds! Coming from a military family that includes Charles Martel and Charlemagne, the author obviously has very little knowledge of history. And the author of this post has no clue about the US. I'll go paragraph by paragraph on this:

Paragraph 1: Wars in Europe were matters of foreign policy - not internal conflicts. Get real! The War of the Roses was an internal civil war, as was the Cromwellian War. What about Charles Martel's wars with various principalities? How about Charlemagne's battles with fellow Frankish nobles? And let's not forget the petty little battles between Charlemagne's immediate descendants after Charlemagne's death. Of course, we can't forget Kenneth MacAlpin, or Edward I "Longshanks", and let's not forget Cnut the Great and his battles over various overloards. Give me a break! And yes, the US has been invaded - twice! The first time in 1812 by the lobster-backs (British) and the second time in the Aleutians by the Japanese during World War II. And various groups do see themselves as different peoples. You are obviously forgetting that all of the American Indian Tribes are, by treaty, nations within a nation and that they actually due exercise a certain amount of sovereignty.

Paragraph 2: The US has had two internal squabbles: Shay's Rebellion, or, if you will the Whiskey Rebellion, which lasted less than a month and was ended comparitively peacefully compared to your Cromwellian War or War of the Roses or other noble squabbles. The second was the American so-called "civil war". That war was more a war of separation or rebellion because a civil war is a war between 2 factions fighting for control of the same government - which the Confederacy was not fighting for. They were fighting to leave the Union - not take it over. And I will point out that the Union had to put up with a lot of European tampering and interference - so much that Czarist Russia threatened to declare war on both Britain and France if it continued.

Paragraph 3: True, a united Europe is not an American idea. Charlemagne worked and fought toward it. Napoleon and Hitler tried it by force of arms. The simple fact of the matter is that it took two World Wars, that we Americans had to settle for you before you all decided to get civilized. It's ironic that we were founded much later, but civilized much earlier.

Last paragraph: We have fought in far less wars, percentile wise, in our 236 years of exisitence than all of Europe. In sum, we are far less violent than you Europeans - which is one of the reasons - many reasons - that my ancestors left for America.

Longshanks

Be that as it may, Germany has become a sane sensible nation (at long last!) Treasure the moment.

All of the good things that Hitler wanted for Germany, they now have, not by conquest, but by sensible economic policy. Sanity has achieve what reckless Fascism could not.

ruveyn

Last edited by ruveyn on 14 Jun 2012, 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fasism like Communism good in theory bad in practice.

Wait a minute... I thought you said you were a fascist.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I said I was a son of a b***h. I am not a collectivist so I can be neither a fascist, socialist or communist. I believe in Selfish.

ruveyn

Selfish!.....I don't need no stinkin' selfish!

No, no, I was talking to Joker.
Trust me, I never once thought you were a fascist.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer