Longshanks wrote:
Oh, so you're a self-appointed pharasee. Ah, the truth comes out - and it explains a lot. And no, I'm not being the slightest bit defensive. I just get the impression that when I ask a question and you don't answer it that you are purposefully avoiding it. And, being law school trained, yes, I will hold you to an answer until I get it - because for all I know you may be hiding something - or changing the subject. Old habits die hard. There is nothing defensive about it. It's simply good debatesmanship - which secular liberals seem to have a hard time dealing with. Yeah, I do recall a Bible passage - let me see - somewhere in Matthew - ah yes, Matthew 12:22 - 27, when Jesus cast the demons out of the blind possessed man and then the pharasees accused Jesus of being of the devil. That passage comes to mind when you accuse the Souther Baptist Church of being a great source evil. I see a great parallel here. You do have the mindset of a pharasee, I will give you credit for that. So, you think my church is evil and thus you must think that I'm evil because I'm a member. Fascinating. Let's look this over.
According to Webster's, the definition of evil is basically what is morally wrong, what hinders the realization of good; what is materially and especially socially very harmful.
We worship and glorify God, and give praise and thanks to His Son, Jesus Christ, for dying for us that we may enjoy a relationship with God and not be condemned to a Christless eternity. And many of our churches have food pantries that serve a lot of people. I can't for the life of me imagine how that would be evil. There is nothing about it that hinders society or is harmful or is wrong about it. Thus, your statement is unsupported. On your reply to this post perhaps you can defend that statement - or were you merely being inflamitory?
Why should I care that you care? Because, like any other person on this site I don't like to waste my time with people who don't care. As I'm sure you feel the same way. I have better things to use my life energy with. In other words, I have a life.
Now - a disclaimer before I continue. After all, I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on other people - and I don't want to leave that impression - but, Arrant Pariah did ask a question and a question does beget an answer. So If you don't like the answer, don't blame me. Blame Arrant Pariah for asking the question in the first place.
What is God's will? That is simple. It's in the Bible - at least in my and my fellow congregants belief - That we trust Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior and that we have a close relationship with God and obey his will for our lives. Now, that means that we submit to His lordship, His authority over us. His will for us is covered - in my Christian belief, in the Bible. You may choose to follow Him or not. I've made my choice. No one is sticking an AK-47 to your head. There are a number of countries that do just that to force people to follow their state sponsored religion (Iran for example).
What does it mean to worship God and submit to His will? Simply that. I wouldn't think I'd need a Webster's Dictionary for that. I would think that you are a smart enough guy to figure out that one on your own.
I believe that Christ offers all of us a choice, thus, in reality, we choose whether we go to heaven or hell.
Christianity offers me a solace that I never experienced as a secular athiest. I am not condemning you for your choices. I don't get paid enough to do that. But, likewise, don't condemn me for mine. You don't get paid enough to do it either. And just because we acknowledge the existence of hell, it does not mean that there is any point of condemnation for us. We just acknowledge scripture. Period. If you wish to deny it, by all means do so. Don't let us stop you. There are sins I despise, sure. But there is nothing wrong with condemning the sin - not the sinner. And ALL of us, including you, Saint Arrant Pariah, sin daily. The biggest difference between me and an athiest or an agnostic is that I know, beyond any doubt, that God loved me so much, that he not only gave me a drop-dead, gorgeous, knock-out wife, a couple of great daughters, grandkids, a fulfilling military career, a roof over my head, food on my table, and a hedge of protection in battle, but also gave me His only begotten Son that I may spend my eternity Him either after death or after rapture. I'm saved and my place is sealed. I serve my country - yes. But I serve Christ first. And I've been in some pretty hair-raising situations. Was I scared? Try down-right terrified! But while I'm scared of HOW I may die, I don't fear death itself. And that, is part of the peace that passes all understanding.
You know, your slur reminds me of an event that occurred on the third day of the Battle of Gettysburg. General Robert E. Lee had just given the order for his army to begin the retreat South. As he rode down Cemetary Hill, a Union Army private who was seriously wounded (the wound would ultimately cost him a leg) raised his arms and shouted "Hurrah for the Union". Lee immediately dismounted his horse and walked toward the private. The private thought that Lee was going to kill him. Instead, Lee knelt down and took the private's hand and said, "My son, I will pray for you, and hope that one day you will soon be well."
I'm not a general. Just a lowly major. But I'll close this post in the same way. "My dear Sir, I will pray for you, and hope that one day, you'll soon find peace."
Longshanks
But, Longshanks, that is not the sum total of the activity of churches--or even merely your denomination of the larger church--within contemporary society.
Many churches seek to use the law as a means to impose one particular morality upon the general citizenry. The Opposition of many churches to same-sex marriage is a case in point. Of what possible relevance is the civil marriage of two non-communicants to any particular church?
Has the legitimacy of divorced persons remarrying watered down the Roman Catholic church's refusal to remarry divorced persons? No. So why should the legtimacy of same-sex marriage do anything to a church which refuses to celebrate those marriages? And why should one church stand in the way of another which holds as its belief that same-sex marriage is just as legitimate an expression of divine grace as opposite sex marriage?
40% of homeless teenagers are on the streets because they have been kicked out of their homes by parents intolerant of their children's sexual orientation. What responsibility has the church taken for the consequences of its teaching? How many pastors have actively encouraged parents to deal ruthlessly with their gay and lesbian children--knowing full well that this increases the likelihood of suicide by a factor of eight?
Now, I do not hold you personally responible for any of this. You are accountable only for the sins that you have committed personally. But when you claim that there is nothing about your church that hinders society or is harmful or is wrong about it, it seems to me that you are being disingenuous.
Many people have been hurt very directly by the actions of people in positions of authority within your church. Even if you believe these people to have acted in good faith, you cannot ignore the harm that has been done.
To begin with the Roman Catholic church is not the sum of all churches either, but you seem to have no problem making it the sum, as I see from this post. Big mistake - it indicates extreme bias.
Secondly, both the Old and the New Testaments are very plainly spoken when it comes homosexulality - and I'll quote the Apostle Paul on this: "It's an abomination before the Lord." If you have such a cow with that - take it up before God. Nothing I can do about it. I'm not God. Never said I was. But an athiest historian named Edward Gibbon, and many after him have said the same thing: Destroying the traditional family is the quickest way to destroying a great society. The Greeks, Romans, and many others eventually allowed same sex marriage and look what happened to them. History repeats itself. I don't apologize for it. I say it like it is. And I've met a few "former" homosexuals who now have wives and families who will also differ with you on that.
Third, your statistics. I dispute the validity. Name your sources or don't quote them. I've busted more than one set of statistics in my day - they use accountants to do that on occasion. I'd love to bust these.
church. The Roman Catholic Church is not my church - and again - prove it! I wan't proof - not bunk!
As far as my being disingenous is concerned, I think, sir, you fit that catagory better than I. You see, you have forgotten all of the times that you secular liberals have, expecially by using the legal system, forced your values down our throats. We rely on the Holy Spirit way more than the legal system. You liberals espouse it. Liberal activist judges are overturning public referendums concerning same-sex marriage - MINORITY enforcing it's will over the majority. Yeah, right - what a bunch of psychobabble your response is!
16 Jun 2012, 6:21 pm
