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Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 1:20 am

For an interesting brief but detailed overview of the way the USA has developed its federal and local police activities and what the targets really are see http://www.counterpunch.org/wilkinson03122010.html



swansong
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14 Mar 2010, 1:42 am

Despite idealistic Randite libertarian rhetoric, a society where heroin and cocaine are legal would be a dystopia.



ruveyn
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14 Mar 2010, 2:07 am

swansong wrote:
Despite idealistic Randite libertarian rhetoric, a society where heroin and cocaine are legal would be a dystopia.


Do you believe that people over the age of consent have the natural right to commit suicide? I do. As long as they don't take anyone else to the Land of Death with them against their wills. If someone wants to sit quietly at home and O.D., why should he be stopped? I believe that addicts should be supplied with all the dope they want (that is so they won't rob people to get the stuff). The sooner they O.D. and die, the sooner they are out of our hair.

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Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 2:31 am

ruveyn wrote:
swansong wrote:
Despite idealistic Randite libertarian rhetoric, a society where heroin and cocaine are legal would be a dystopia.


Do you believe that people over the age of consent have the natural right to commit suicide? I do. As long as they don't take anyone else to the Land of Death with them against their wills. If someone wants to sit quietly at home and O.D., why should he be stopped? I believe that addicts should be supplied with all the dope they want (that is so they won't rob people to get the stuff). The sooner they O.D. and die, the sooner they are out of our hair.

ruveyn


And all sick people would be better off merely succumbing to their ailments. The savings on medical expense and trouble for others would be immense.
Of course, when you or any of your beloved family members come down with cancer, you possibly could have second thoughts.



Orwell
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14 Mar 2010, 3:11 am

swansong wrote:
Despite idealistic Randite libertarian rhetoric, a society where heroin and cocaine are legal would be a dystopia.

Switzerland disagrees with you—heroin is legally administered under a physician's supervision there, and it's been working out well for them. In practical terms, legalizing drugs is a more effective means of dealing with problems of drug abuse than the "war on drugs" ever has been.


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Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 3:17 am

Orwell wrote:
swansong wrote:
Despite idealistic Randite libertarian rhetoric, a society where heroin and cocaine are legal would be a dystopia.

Switzerland disagrees with you—heroin is legally administered under a physician's supervision there, and it's been working out well for them. In practical terms, legalizing drugs is a more effective means of dealing with problems of drug abuse than the "war on drugs" ever has been.


If you have read the historical analysis I suggested it is not in the realm of logical rational analysis to move to a sensible situation.



mjs82
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14 Mar 2010, 3:29 am

In some communities, the game is the only permanent establishment there is.



ruveyn
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14 Mar 2010, 9:01 am

Sand wrote:

And all sick people would be better off merely succumbing to their ailments. The savings on medical expense and trouble for others would be immense.
Of course, when you or any of your beloved family members come down with cancer, you possibly could have second thoughts.


Being physically ill is generally something that happens to people and is not chosen (although there are exceptions, like the consequences of smoking or overeating). Illnesses can be treated (most of them can) but self destructive choices are not a treatable condition. So comparing being ill to being an addict (which is something chosen) is not an apt analogy or comparison. Most ill people do not want to be ill and will co-operate in their treatment a cure. Most addicts want to be addicts. There really is no sure and effective cure for their addiction, so give them the dope they crave and they will either stabilize into some functional state or they will die. If the former they can function well enough to work for their living; if the latter they die and are out of our hair.

No one has a solution for dealing with self-destructive urges or choices. We do have a solution for some infectious diseases - to wit, antibiotics.



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Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 9:14 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

And all sick people would be better off merely succumbing to their ailments. The savings on medical expense and trouble for others would be immense.
Of course, when you or any of your beloved family members come down with cancer, you possibly could have second thoughts.


Being physically ill is generally something that happens to people and is not chosen (although there are exceptions, like the consequences of smoking or overeating). Illnesses can be treated (most of them can) but self destructive choices are not a treatable condition. So comparing being ill to being an addict (which is something chosen) is not an apt analogy or comparison. Most ill people do not want to be ill and will co-operate in their treatment a cure. Most addicts want to be addicts. There really is no sure and effective cure for their addiction, so give them the dope they crave and they will either stabilize into some functional state or they will die. If the former they can function well enough to work for their living; if the latter they die and are out of our hair.

No one has a solution for dealing with self-destructive urges or choices. We do have a solution for some infectious diseases - to wit, antibiotics.



ruveyn


We all have made many errors of choice in our lives and it is just basic decency to try to rescue people from their foolish errors.



ruveyn
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14 Mar 2010, 10:52 am

Sand wrote:

We all have made many errors of choice in our lives and it is just basic decency to try to rescue people from their foolish errors.


At whose expense, St. Sand?

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Sand
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14 Mar 2010, 10:59 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

We all have made many errors of choice in our lives and it is just basic decency to try to rescue people from their foolish errors.


At whose expense, St. Sand?

ruveyn


Let me see now...how expensive was it to save the Iraqis from their nasty dictator?



Khan_Sama
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14 Mar 2010, 12:15 pm

Drug abuse is not a criminal offence. It is a public health problem.

I'm a former drug user.



Awesomelyglorious
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14 Mar 2010, 2:48 pm

Sand wrote:
Let me see now...how expensive was it to save the Iraqis from their nasty dictator?

Oh, by some counts about 100,000 Iraqis.



Jacoby
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14 Mar 2010, 3:01 pm

I'm for decriminalization of marijuana but I dunno about cocaine or heroin or whatever other dangerous illegal drugs there is since I don't want to be stuck footing the bill for these dope heads. If it were legal they should receive no public assistance.



Orwell
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14 Mar 2010, 7:46 pm

Khan_Sama wrote:
Drug abuse is not a criminal offence. It is a public health problem.

Agreed. Treating it as a criminal offense makes it impossible for addicts to receive the help they need.

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Sand wrote:
Let me see now...how expensive was it to save the Iraqis from their nasty dictator?

Oh, by some counts about 100,000 Iraqis.

That is an incredibly conservative estimate. It's off by an order of magnitude.


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Khan_Sama
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14 Mar 2010, 8:00 pm

According to Jefferey Archer's prison diary, it takes a person 6 months in the UK to get enlisted into a rehab. However, when they get arrested for posession of drugs, they are immediately put into prison rehab. In the prison however, it is easier to score heroin than 'on the out'. It's a never ending cycle of addiction for most.