Question for moderate to conservative Christians

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Elaborate. I think assuming "His kingdom" is a really great place to be, then the idea that one could make up for the other is quite plausible. The issue is that I don't think most of the theodicies work.

Killing babies in a fire or tsunami builds character? Ok. I'd note that it's a strange system but this is the bible we are talking about. It's strange all the way down.

Abraham's pride allowed him to become impatient with God.

I am not going to spoon feed you guys. Read some CS Lewis. Or maybe click on the link. You don't have to believe in God, but the least you can do is be understanding of those who choose to believe.

On this subject, it is entirely appropriate to mention the fact that God allows the "free agency" or the freedom to choose evil to man. He cannot interfere with this.

Last edited by over9000 on 25 Jun 2012, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bad things have ALWAYS happened on earth. God has never said He will stop bad things from happening. He only helps humans deal with the tragedies. He cannot always stop them. He might be able to intervene, but he doesn't, because he knows humans are not immortal. They are not Gods. They are mortals. If God were to intervene in every tragedy on earth, it would be like the humans are gods. It would be a challenge to his Supremacy.

That's a pretty good answer, but I think the answer is more along the lines of that God wants to create strong souls capable of becoming Gods like Himself. You don't get that by living in Utopia, you get that by hardship and trial. Life is short, so an eternal reward would definitely make up any loss on earth.

Often people are not made stronger by these acts of God, though. They feel worse. Some might never fully recover. It's part of being mortal. A lesson from God to finite life. We are what we are. We are not gods.

That doesnt make any sense.

An ominipotent diety can create any system he wants. Look, you can make up answers all day long for why he chose these rules and this universe. But you are just making up answers. The bible doesnt tell you. Because the bible isnt "gods" diary. It's just another unanswered question.

The trick of religion is that they fool you into thinking more has been answered than has actually been answered. That's the illusion.

I am not making up answers. I am providing insight
God intervening is equivalent to giving divine powers to humans. In other words, humans are supposed to be humble mortals. Maybe at one point God will decide it's time to intervene and will involve Himself in helping humans become even more godlike. Perhaps He has already done it and that's why the industrial revolution occurred?

After that you might want to read Carl G. Jung's "Answer to Job." I personally think it's brilliant, but then I'm not a Christian. If you can't find it on-line, it's included in The Portable Jung, edited by Joseph Campbell.

And maybe Harry will make a new magic wand. As long as you are writing fan ficiton you should try to use more contemporary characters.

Why are you buying an incomplete product that requires you to spend your own time trying to finish what it's authors didn't accomplish? It's like a novel with missing pages that requires you to fill in your own major plot elements. The bible; some assembly required.

I find the idea absurd, and the absurdity rises the more followers attempt to justify evil as seen in this thread

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

The reason He doesn't prevent all bad things from happening is because He won't interfere with the choices humans make, which are inevitably going to be evil. He values free agency that much.

Why is there so much suffering on earth? It is because adversity makes us stronger and better. Wouldn't a perfect being want us to go through hardship for this purpose? If life were easy, it would be extremely pointless and boring. Any loss that occurs on earth will be made afterwards. If you don't believe in an afterlife, this makes absolutely no sense.

I just love CS Lewis, don't you? :3

"Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what he is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on: you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised.

But presently he starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make sense. What on earth is he up to? The explanation is that he is building quite a different house from the one you thought of — throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards.

You thought you were going to be made into a decent little cottage: but he is building up a palace. He intends to come and live in it himself."

--CS Lewis

Fan fiction??? I am being objective! I am officially agnostic but prefer to keep an open mind. If I had all the answers, I would be God.

This is what I don't swallow. Why all of a sudden has mankind become evil? For about 94% of the history of humianity, according to what anthropology has learned, we were hunter-gatherers living in small egalitarian bands in which everyone shared in what abundance was available, and as long as the group fared well, everyone was taken care of.

Now we have what we have, with the advent of civilization, agriculture, and, interestingly, monotheism and organized religion. Since the accumulation of wealth, money, complex hierarchies, and concentrations of power. These are all fairly recent developments when one considers how long human beings have existed on the planet.

I don't think humanity is naturally evil at all. I think it's a sickness, a dysfunction, that grew out of control since we reached a particular phase in the development of civilization.

Most people I meet are not evil, they simply want to have a halfway decent life and take care of their loved ones. I consider the whole "people are inherently evil" argument to be BS. Inherently flawed certainly, or we would never have let the cultural sickness get so bad. But not inherently evil.