Gun Confiscation = Civil War?

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vermontsavant
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20 Dec 2012, 3:16 pm

CyborgUprising wrote:

NorthPark wrote:

Dillogic wrote:

No, as they'll just "grandfather" them and ban the future sales of such (if they do).

Killing all the birds in one shot.

Unfortunately, I've hearing rumors (or rumours) that the new AWB law will not have a grandfather cause, if you are referring to that. Or any gun control measure for matter. Also, Obama may try to sign the UN small arms treaty by executive Order. I really hope the President can't pull this off.

If that turns out to be the case, I wonder would there be retroactive legislation on the weapons that originally fell under the "grandfather clause?" I could see a legal nightmare ensuing with all the new forms, notifications to people to forfeit possession under penalty of law and the beat cops that would have to locate everyone and confiscate the firearms. I personally don't see it working smoothly. In the end, I don't care one way or another. If I have to surrender them, I will. I like the idea of not having to be in a cage deprived of Internet access, industrial music and most importantly TACOS too much. Hopefully, they'd be nice enough to give you a voucher for turning them in, so as to at least recoup some of the money (an M2 from prior to 1986, a Soviet-era AK-47 and a FlaK are quite expensive). Frankly, I'm tired of hearing people drone on about how our President is so evil and how he wants to run the country like a dictatorship...

i dont think it will come to that.the talk in boston is only an semi auto ban on people with a mental heath history who are not involved with a good doctor.i doubt with a republican house obama will go left of massachusetts

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Jacoby
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20 Dec 2012, 5:19 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

I love all this crazyness starts out of the mere possibility that guns that were illegal 8 years ago become illegal again.

We're talking hypotheticals and the proposals go much further than the 1994 law.

and what did that law accomplish? Was there no gun crime or random shootings?

The question is, was there LESS gun crime or random shootings? I don't think anyone believes that there's a 100% foolproof solution that would prevent any future shootings or violent acts. But if a solution might not be 100% effective, but might be partially effective, then isn't it worth considering?

Look at it from another point of view. The United States does not seem to have a 100% foolproof way of preventing guns from reaching Al Qaeda. Does that mean we should not do everything in our power to try and prevent guns from reaching Al Qaeda anyway? Should we do anything less when the threat is domestic and the threat is generally more real than a domestic attack by Al Qaeda?

The answer is no. Gun crime has actually gone down across the board. "Assault weapons" are pretty irrelevant as far crime goes, even if there was a rise in some places it would probably be more related to the recession. Random shootings are such aberrations, it's hard to measure but the most notable school shooting of all time happened during the AWB.

As for Al Qaeda, if we want to prevent Al Qaeda from receiving guns then we probably should stop directly arming them.

Warsie
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20 Dec 2012, 5:40 pm

NorthPark wrote:

And look what happened!? Violent crime hits 100 year high in 2003. And some Londoners think that the London riots are more damaging due to lack of the right to near arms and overwhelmed police force.

As in VC spike, I forgot what source it was but some scholar thought that the Englishmen and women should be able to own firearms.

Allowing the riots to largely burn out was a good idea (for police) given the alternative was to send in troops and crush it, which would play into their hands and ignite more resistance....

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Last edited by Warsie on 20 Dec 2012, 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Dec 2012, 5:48 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:

exactly. Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin... They all loved their gun control, and look at what they did.

LOL. The average dude in USSR had a weapon and knew how to use it due to the civil war. Hell, there's a bunch of WWII era weapons in a bunch of Soviet bloc countries I believe that the USSR & allied government didnt really care to put up.

Hell, Hitler came out of a bunch of right-wing militias and revived the concept later on in WWII.

China Cambodia did not have as many weapons anyway, lol

Giftorcurse wrote:

Psychological warfare on the populace necessary to the plan of SEELE/The Conspirators/Whoever.

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John_Browning
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20 Dec 2012, 9:37 pm

vermontsavant wrote:

We have some partial good news from the boston herald today about mental health,disability and gun ownership.and for those on this forum who find me anoying and take my posts out of context.i emphasize "partial good news"

massachustts law enforcement wants access to mental health records for processing gun lisences.
but here is the good news.

if someone with autism,depresion or whatever is working with a doctor and taking there medication,disability is no bar to gun ownership

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

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vermontsavant
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20 Dec 2012, 9:53 pm

John_Browning wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

resiatence in what direction resistence to new gun laws or mental health profesionals not wanting patience to have guns

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NorthPark
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21 Dec 2012, 10:50 am

John_Browning wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

So what you're saying is, mental health professionals would challenge a law allowing people on meds to buy guns. That's reasonable. They can buy guns after passing through withdrawal. Yes, the recent killer
has AS, but he was on meds, and had a personality disorder. At least half of mass shootings are caused by people on meds, not simply by "assault weapons" with high capacity magazines.

Now, challenging a law allowing for the arming of unmedicated aspies would be a different story.

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vermontsavant
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21 Dec 2012, 11:08 am

in massachusetts your towns police chief decides who get a mass FID card.the second amendment forces the chief of police to give a class c and class b fid to anyone who isnt a felon.the class A fid is at the chief of police and investigating detetives discretion.the second amendment doesnt give you the right to conceal the weapon.if new law takes affect the 2nd amendment would force the chief to give the class C and class B to anyone taking needed responability for there mental health.doctors would have no say ones gun eligability.the cheif would asign a detective to investigate if person is taken responablity for there mental health.

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vermontsavant
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21 Dec 2012, 11:19 am

detectives would investigate if one was seeing a doctor and taking meds if needed and then simply reporting the facts back the the chief of police.the doctors would have no say unless one was imediatley homocidal or suicidal.the doctor cant lie because then the police would wonder why they wernt commited

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vermontsavant
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21 Dec 2012, 11:25 am

what is a massachusetts firearms inentification card.

class C to own a long gun with a magazine of 6 or less rounds.to keep a pistol in you house but it must be transported to shooting range in a locked case.

class B to carry a visable hostered pistol

class A to conceal a pistol or own a semi auto rifle or shotgun with a magazine capasity of more then 6 round.like a AR15.mass doesnt consider a class A fid a second amendment right

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Kraichgauer
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21 Dec 2012, 3:06 pm

NorthPark wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

Medication for Aspies?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

NorthPark
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21 Dec 2012, 11:59 pm

This may be a little off topic, but who agrees with banning semi automatic assault rifles? Or matter of fact, semi auto anything and high capacity magazines over 30 rounds.

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NorthPark
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22 Dec 2012, 12:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

NorthPark wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

Medication for Aspies?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Medications for any underlying condition/ Comorbid actually.

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Kraichgauer
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22 Dec 2012, 1:04 am

NorthPark wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

NorthPark wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

vermontsavant wrote:

That will probably meet resistance in court from the mental health community, both advocates and professionals alike.

Medication for Aspies?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Medications for any underlying condition/ Comorbid actually.

Okay, that makes sense. I myself take citalapram (spelling) for anxiety.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

MXH
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22 Dec 2012, 1:08 am

PM wrote:

Hopefully you are not referring to the Illuminatti or some other type of conspiracy theory.

The shadow government is as plain as day, the 1% has pretty much enslaved the 99% and gun control is just a tool to further control the poor and working classes.

Umm... did you reread this when you wrote it? Cause it makes no damn sense whatsoever. If the 1% wanted to enslave the 99%, then the party that "helps" the 1%, being the republicans, would be the one about gun control. But its the other way around.

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22 Dec 2012, 1:23 am

MXH wrote:

PM wrote:

It's ironic how Democrats champion for Womens' rights, gay rights, social programs and rights for everyone but if you are a gun owner, or a would be gun owner, to the donkey, you're the f$@&ing devil to them and spit at you. I have mostly democrat beliefs but on guns, I switch to the elephant unless they make even less sense.

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