UK Muslim skewers Palestinian lies on Gaza's water supply

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Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 4:47 pm

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Is Israel really to blame for Gaza's water shortages?
  • Israel has met and exceeded expectations in terms of the supply of water to the Palestinian people. So why are Palestinian and British politicians still playing politics with this issue?
The question is often posed: If their Arab and Muslim brothers around the region feel so strongly about the Palestinian people, why haven't billions of dirhams, dinars, riyals, pounds or even rupees found their way into large-scale development projects aimed at alleviating poverty in the Gaza Strip?

“But.. but... but… Israel!” the cry often comes. An argument that makes as little sense in theory as it does in practice. To get the facts straight from the outset is important, as misinformation propagated by the delegitimisers of the Jewish state often leads to erroneous beliefs being implanted in the minds of journalists, activists and, importantly, legislators. Take a look at what passed between Israel and Gaza just last week, here. And here.

How else could an Early Day Motion in the British Parliament have been tabled blaming the Israeli government for a situation that the World Bank claimed in 2009 would make the Gaza strip ‘uninhabitable’? But the World Bank didn’t blame Israel and a similar report by the United Nations stated that while Operation Cast Lead intensified the problems already faced, Gaza’s problems were “due to underinvestment in environmental systems, lack of progress on priority environmental projects and the collapse of governance mechanisms.”


Read it all.



thomas81
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14 Feb 2013, 5:11 pm

The last time a foreign relief effort tried to bring help to the occupied territories, they were boarded by the Israeli navy and prevented from docking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla


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Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 5:15 pm

thomas81 wrote:
The last time a foreign relief effort tried to bring help to the occupied territories, they were boarded by the Israeli navy and prevented from docking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla


You mean anti-Israel activists (some of whom attacked Israeli soldiers with metal rods), involved in the business of deliberately attempting to delegitimise Israel - nothing to do with the disputed territories - who attempted to break a perfectly legal international blockade by Israel to try to prevent weapons getting into the hands of terrorists.

Tell me, how do you think most other navies in that region would have responded to a collection of unwashed student a***holes trying to attack their country in this way? That's right, they would have massacred them.

No actual rebuttal to the article itself, I see.



thomas81
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14 Feb 2013, 5:19 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
The last time a foreign relief effort tried to bring help to the occupied territories, they were boarded by the Israeli navy and prevented from docking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla


You mean anti-Israel activists (some of whom attacked Israeli soldiers with metal rods), involved in the business of deliberately attempting to delegitimise Israel - nothing to do with the disputed territories - who attempted to break a perfectly legal international blockade by Israel to try to prevent weapons getting into the hands of terrorists.

Tell me, how do you think most other navies in that region would have responded to a collection of unwashed student a***holes trying to attack their country in this way? That's right, they would have massacred them.

No actual rebuttal to the article itself, I see.


the author was criticising Palestine sympathisers for their apparent impotence in financially or physically helping the Palestinians. I made the point that Israel is physically undermining this. It wouldnt have made a difference if the flotilla crew had attacked those Israeli marines or not, they boarded the vessel with the pre-intention of preventing the ship reaching dry dock.

Secondly those unwashed student a***holes had no intention of dealing with the Israelis, they were attempting to reach Palestinian soil with humanitarian provisions and construction materials.


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Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 5:24 pm

thomas81 wrote:
the author was criticising Palestine sympathisers for their apparent impotence in financially or physically helping the Palestinians.


No, he wasn't. He was attacking Palestinian politicians for lying about their situation as regards to Israeli water. You won't hear the Palestinians readily admit that they poison their own water supplies, for instance, or steal water from Israel but Israel provides clean water supplies to people in a territory that wish to wipe them from the map. Just you think about that.

His real point about other Arab countries is that they could pour money into Palestinian efforts, but they choose not to. The Palestinian public are the source of their own misery - ruled by a violent collection of egomaniac, human rights violating, racist thugs who have no interest in the welfare of their people.

thomas81 wrote:
I made the point that Israel is physically undermining this.


No, Palestinians are undermining this due to their constant attacks on Israel. Israel has kept its side of the bargain - in fact, it has done more than that - on the water issue, and on many other issues too. The Palestinians have broken the conditions set aside by the UN on several counts.

thomas81 wrote:
It wouldnt have made a difference if the flotilla crew had attacked those Israeli marines or not, they boarded the vessel with the pre-intention of preventing the ship reaching dry dock.


Again - they tried to break a perfectly legal blockade by a country in the midst of a terrorist war. It's not a bright idea. Any other country less worried about its reputation (or its reputation on human rights) would have not let them live and the people responsible for their 'freedom' flotilla know that.



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14 Feb 2013, 5:53 pm

Tequila wrote:
Quote:
Is Israel really to blame for Gaza's water shortages?
  • Israel has met and exceeded expectations in terms of the supply of water to the Palestinian people. So why are Palestinian and British politicians still playing politics with this issue?
The question is often posed: If their Arab and Muslim brothers around the region feel so strongly about the Palestinian people, why haven't billions of dirhams, dinars, riyals, pounds or even rupees found their way into large-scale development projects aimed at alleviating poverty in the Gaza Strip?

“But.. but... but… Israel!” the cry often comes. An argument that makes as little sense in theory as it does in practice. To get the facts straight from the outset is important, as misinformation propagated by the delegitimisers of the Jewish state often leads to erroneous beliefs being implanted in the minds of journalists, activists and, importantly, legislators. Take a look at what passed between Israel and Gaza just last week, here. And here.

How else could an Early Day Motion in the British Parliament have been tabled blaming the Israeli government for a situation that the World Bank claimed in 2009 would make the Gaza strip ‘uninhabitable’? But the World Bank didn’t blame Israel and a similar report by the United Nations stated that while Operation Cast Lead intensified the problems already faced, Gaza’s problems were “due to underinvestment in environmental systems, lack of progress on priority environmental projects and the collapse of governance mechanisms.”


Read it all.


Yes. Spend huge amounts of money building things when Israel then knocks it all down. Why, say they were going to spend large amounts of money in Gaza, how can it be any good when you can't import anything substantial? Underinvestment in environmental system is to be expected when under siege.



Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 5:54 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Yes. Spend huge amounts of money building things when Israel then knocks it all down.


Israel would not need to knock a single building down during defensive measures if Hamas were not firing rockets every day into Israel and killing Israelis.



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14 Feb 2013, 5:58 pm

Israel knocks things down in order to dominate and rule... a message. Their whole purpose demands that this happen again and again. Israel engineered Cast Lead and this latest attack by deliberately breaking the ceasefires with invasions and murders.



Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 6:06 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Israel knocks things down in order to dominate and rule... a message. Their whole purpose demands that this happen again and again. Israel engineered Cast Lead and this latest attack by deliberately breaking the ceasefires with invasions and murders.


It was Hamas who fired rockets into Gaza precipitating an Israeli response. It's Hamas that is responsible for all the defensive measures taken by Israel (including the unfortunate deaths of women and children) on Gaza. It's Hamas that murder their own people. It's Hamas that use their men, women and children as human shields. It's the Hamas officers that pump out deadly, racist propoganda every day and leave weapons dumps in schools, hospitals and other places that regular Gazans use. It's Hamas that put their people in the firing line. Deliberately.

If I smack you on the face and I keep doing it over and over again, daring you to attack me like a playground bully and whenever you try to get a defensive strike in I hide behind members of my own family, is it wrong of you to finally defend yourself when you can get a fairly clear shot at me?

For the hard of thinking, here's a cartoon:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbdnu_R9G40[/youtube]

So, are you with the playground bully or the kid who wants to be left alone?



xenon13
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14 Feb 2013, 6:23 pm

Israel says "Gaza is in OUR security perimeter. The West Bank is in OUR security perimeter". When they want to do some massive destruction, they send in a raiding party or two or three in order to draw out the rockets. Then they "respond". Israel always considers these places to be within its security perimeter and the people there as its subjects.



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14 Feb 2013, 7:52 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Israel says "Gaza is in OUR security perimeter. The West Bank is in OUR security perimeter". When they want to do some massive destruction, they send in a raiding party or two or three in order to draw out the rockets. Then they "respond". Israel always considers these places to be within its security perimeter and the people there as its subjects.


err...they only send in raiding parties after they're attacked by Palestinians and they're seeking out the terrorists who attacked them.



Tequila
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14 Feb 2013, 7:54 pm

daydreamer84 wrote:
err...they only send in raiding parties after they're attacked by Palestinians and they're seeking out the terrorists who attacked them.


That's my point. Anti-Israel people have to deliberately choose to ignore essential parts of the story to come to the conclusion that they do.



ruveyn
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14 Feb 2013, 8:34 pm

thomas81 wrote:
The last time a foreign relief effort tried to bring help to the occupied territories, they were boarded by the Israeli navy and prevented from docking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Freedom_Flotilla


That "Freedom Flotilla" was an armed attacked that was nipped in the bud.

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15 Feb 2013, 2:30 am

I find the paranoia regarding Israel to be amusing. Everyone wants to destroy it, push everyone in the sea, kill all the Jews, etc...

Quote:
We came to this country which was already populated by Arabs, and we are establishing a Hebrew, that is a Jewish state here. In considerable areas of the country [the total area was about 6%] we bought the lands from the Arabs. Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you, because these geography books no longer exist; not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahalal [Dayan's own village] arose in the place of Mahalul, Gevat --- in the place of Jibta, (Kibbutz) Sarid --- in the place of Haneifs, and Kefar Yehoshua --- in the place of Tell Shaman. There is not one place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population


MOSHE DAYAN, 4 April 1969



Tequila
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15 Feb 2013, 7:32 am

xenon13 wrote:
I find the paranoia regarding Israel to be amusing. Everyone wants to destroy it, push everyone in the sea, kill all the Jews, etc...


Their Palestinian leaders keep telling them over and over again that they want to do this to them.

If many, many people with weapons who you knew hated your guts because of religious reasons constantly threatened to kill you, would you take their constant attacks or threats on you seriously or would you let simply lay down your weapons and let you massacre you and rape your wife? Don't make me publish endless videos showing Palestinian leaders clearly making bigoted statements like the ones you talk about.

Oh, and that quote is another lie and a deliberate misquote put about by anti-Israel activists. Dayan never said this. What he actually said was (courtesy of CAMERA):

Quote:
The quote is taken from an address Dayan gave to Technion University students on March 19, 1969. A transcript of the speech appeared in Ha'aretz on April 4, 1969.

In answer to a student's question suggesting that Israel adopt a policy of punishing Arabs who commit crimes in the West Bank by deportation to Jordan, Dayan answers that he is vehemently opposed to this idea, insisting that the answer to the longstanding Arab-Israeli problem is to learn to live together with Arab neighbors. He goes on to say:
    We came to a region of land that was inhabited by Arabs, and we set up a Jewish state. In a considerable number of places, we purchased the land from Arabs and set up Jewish villages where there had once been Arab villages. You don't even know the names [of the previous Arab villages] and I don't blame you, because those geography books aren't around anymore. Not only the books, the villages aren't around. Nahalal was established in the place of Mahalul, and Gvat was established in the place of Jibta, Sarid in the place of Huneifis and Kfar Yehoshua in the place of Tel Shaman. There isn't any place that was established in an area where there had not at one time been an Arab settlement.
Dayan's conclusion was that the solution to the Arab-Israeli problem is to learn to coexist with them.

In the misquote, the key phrase "we purchased the land from Arabs" is omitted, and thus Dayan's meaning is reversed. Dayan was not saying that Arabs were dispossessed. On the contrary, he was indicating that though Arabs sold the land of their own free will, given their presence in the region, the Israeli goal is to live peacefully together with them.

Are you hearing this? Coexist. The Palestinians don't want that. They want to wipe out Jews in the Middle East.

Right, is there any other Israeli leaders' quotes you want to misrepresent and lie about?



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15 Feb 2013, 12:51 pm

So they like to jangle the keys of the houses from which they were expelled. So they like to remind people of the things Dayan said in that quote above. If the Israelis are so troubled by that they can always do as Dayan suggested the Palestinians do...