Page 1 of 2 [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

kxmode
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,613
Location: In your neighborhood, knocking on your door. :)

07 Apr 2013, 2:33 am

The Moabite Stone is an inscribed stone set up around 840 BCE by King Mesha of Moab (a kingdom located in modern Jordan). The divine name appears an ancient tetragrammaton.

Image

The Bay Psalms Book, the first piece of literature published in England's American colonies in 1640. This was the entire book of Psalms translated from Hebrew into English. The divine name IEHOVAH appears throughout.

[img][800:767]http://www.kxmode.com/jw/Bay-Psalms-Book---Psalms-83-18.jpg[/img]

The Lachish Letters contains ample use of the divine name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachish_letters

Quote:
Letter Number 9

May YHWH (Jehovah) cause my lord to hear ti[dings] of peace and of [good. And n]ow, give 10 (loaves) of bread and 2 (jars) [of wi]ne. Send back word [to] your servant by means of Selemyahu as to what we must do tomorrow. [7]


The Septuagint contains the divine name as well as many other sources. Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.



Nambo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,882
Location: Prussia

07 Apr 2013, 5:05 am

Hey Kxmode,
Ive got some "New Light" for you, it will shortly be announced that the faithful and Discreet Slave, isnt the collective body of the anointed after all, but just the Governing Body itself.

Of course, in reality this was always the case, for all the societies reading material, its "Spiritual food" was always penned by a handful of men at Brooklyn, no input from the world wide anointed was ever considered, an anointed was more likely to be disfellowshipped if he tried to bring up some "New Light" that was different to the current dogma, so the current view of the anointed being the FDS and feeding themselves has always been a deceit.



Tsunami
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 25 Apr 2012
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 83
Location: VA

07 Apr 2013, 5:08 am

kxmode wrote:
The Septuagint contains the divine name as well as many other sources. Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.

You say his name and his word are preserved, but yet you've used three different versions of his name in this post (Jehovah, Yahweh, Iehovah) and there are thousands of different translations of the Bible. And while I am sure you could tell me why one is better than another, the simple fact is that there is debate on these subjects and so I don't see how you can claim that these things have been preserved. Especially the new testament, which doesn't contain God's name in most translations and which text varies greatly even in the earliest known copies. If I were to judge what is God's word by how well preserved the holy book has been I would convert to Islam, Mormonism or perhaps Judaism.



Nambo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,882
Location: Prussia

07 Apr 2013, 5:21 am

Almighty God was referred to by a number of names and titles in the Old Testament. Jews traditionally say there were seven names. One of these names was YHWH. The letters YHWH are named in Hebrew Yod-Heh-Waw-Heh. The Jewish Encyclopaedia states:

"Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh ( ), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility." www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N; (as of 25/09/2005)

Prior to the time of Jesus, mainline Judaism came to believe that YHWH, the divine name of God, was too sacred to be uttered, and the ineffable name stopped being uttered aloud. Because written Hebrew contained consonants but no vowels, it is now unknown exactly how YHWH was pronounced by ancient Jews. However, there is consensus by scholars that God's name was rendered as Yahuweh or Yahweh.

"There is almost universal consensus among scholars today that the sacred Tetragrammaton (YHWH) is to be vocalized and pronounced Yahweh. Probably the name means literally "He is."" New International Version: The Making of a Contemporary Translation CHAPTER 9: YHWH Sabaoth: "The Lord Almighty" Kenneth L. Barker

Jews recognise the divine name in modern times as Yahweh. The Jewish Encyclopedia published between 1901 and 1906 by Funk and Wagnalls includes the divine name as Yahweh when translated into English.

Nazarene Judaism is a source of information on the pronunciation of YHWH because they see importance in the use of the name and continued to utter the name after mainstream Judaism had ceased saying the word out loud. The following quote is from an article written by a Nazarene and explains that there is significant evidence that Yahweh is the correct. Nazarenes and the Name of YHWH by James Trimm states;

"It is clear when examining the many sources that the pronunciation of YHWH can be recovered as YAHUWEH sometimes abbreviated as YAHWEH, YAHU or YAH. This is attested to by the Yahwitic names of the Masoretic text, the Peshitta Aramaic and the Marashu texts. The true pronunciation of YHWH is also preserved in ancient transliterations of the name written in Egyptian Hieroglyphics, cuneiform and Greek, all of which had written vowels. The restoration of the use of the name of Yahuweh with its correct pronunciation is as prophetically significant as the restoration of the ancient sect of the Nazarenes. Such a restoration of the name of Yahweh to his people is promised in scripture: For then will I turn to the people a pure language, That they may call upon the name of YHWH (Zeph. 3:9)"

The first half of the Tetragrammaton is commonly used as an abbreviation for God's name and is included in the a number of Biblical names. The shorten form of YHWH is Yah. The New World Translation Reference Bible states;

""As Jah." BHSftn(Heb.), ki Yah; M(Heb.), beYah´, "by Jah." Yah is the first half of the Tetragrammaton, YHWH. It occurs 49 times in M distinguished by a point (mappik) in its second letter and once, in Ca 8:6, without the mappik. TLXXSyVg, "Jehovah." See Ex 15:2 ftn, "Jah"; App 1A." New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures Footnote to Psalm 68:4

This is attested to by a number of English Biblical references. The word Hallelujah means 'Praise Yah" and shows that YH was pronounced as yah. The names Elijah, Isaiah and Jeremiah all end with Yah. On the other hand, Jehosaphat begins with the incorrect "Jeho" in place of Yah. This carries the same inaccuracy as Jehovah. The inaccuracy is due to Masorite additions from the nineth century C.E. The correct way to transliterate this name is Yahosaphat and is a combination of the word Yah, with the Hebrew 'shaphat', which means 'judge'.

The first letter was Y as the letter J did not exist in the Hebrew language. The Encyclopedia Americana contains the following on the J:

"The form of J was unknown in any alphabet until the 14th century. Either symbol (J,I) used initially generally had the consonantal sound of Y as in year. Gradually, the two symbols (J,l) were differentiated, the J usually acquiring consonantal force and thus becoming regarded as a consonant, and the I becoming a vowel. It was not until 1630 that the differentiation became general in England."

The pronunciation of the name of God has been preserved in a number of other languages that do contain vowels. The Murashu texts were found at Nippur and date back to 464 B.C. These were written in Aramaic cuneiform script on clay tablets.

The version of the Old Testament used by Aramaic speaking Assyrians, Syrians and Chaldeans was the Peshitta text. In the fourth century CE vowels were added to the Aramaic text. When they added vowels to names that begin with part of the divine name the result was to start with Yah, such as in Yahosaphat.

Egyptian hieroglyphics contain written vowels. In Budge's An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary page fifteen shows that the shortened form of YHWH was transliterated as "IA" or "YA", also supporting that God's name begins with the sound Yah.

Assyrian cuneiform script has been found which had the divine name spelt with written vowels. A.H.Sayce published Halley's Bible Handbook in 1898. On page sixty two it discusses three clay cuneiform tablets dating from the time of Hammurabi which contain the phrase Jahweh.

Josephus also can be used to support the idea that the sacred name was pronounced Yahweh. In Jewish Wars, chapter V, Josephus wrote;

"... in which was engraven the sacred name: it consists of four vowels."

Yahweh or Yahuweh contains four 'vowels', being pronounced as ee-ah-oo-eh, whereas Jehovah only contains three.

In Jesus time the Greek transliteration of the divine name was Iaoue or Iabe. This supports Yahweh as it was pronounced ee-ah-oo-eh. In the second century Clement of Alexandria wrote: "The mystic name which is called the Tetragrammaton, by which alone they who had access to the Holy of Holies were protected, is pronounced Iaoue, which means 'who is, and who shall be.'" In Latin it was similarly written as Iabe.
History of the word Jehovah

It is interesting to understand how the word Jehovah was derived, as the history of the word shows why the word is incorrect. In an unfortunate stroke of the pen the Watchtower Society chose to adopt the rendition of YHWH that has least resemblance to the original name and incorporates the very reason the exact pronunciation is unknown.

Ancient Hebrew did not contain vowels and so the pronunciation of words was handed down. In order to preserve the pronunciation of the Hebrew language the Masoretes created a system for introducing vowels into the Hebrew language during the ninth century CE. However, when it came to YHWH rather than putting the correct vowel signs they put vowels signs for Adonai, in order to remind the reader to use the word Lord.

It was the effort to avoid pronouncing YHWH that led to the manufacture of the hybrid word Jehovah.

"The form Jehovah is of late medieval origin; it is a combination of the consonants of the Divine Name and the vowels attached to it by the Masoretes but belonging to an entirely different word. The sound of Y is represented by J and the sound of W by V, as in Latin. The word "Jehovah" does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew." Revised Standard Version pp.6-7

"Yahweh-the personal name of the God of the Israelites . . . The Masoretes, Jewish biblical scholars of the Middle Ages, replaced the vowel signs that had appeared above or beneath the consonants of YHWH with the vowel signs of Adonai or of Elohim. Thus, the artificial name Jehovah (YeHoWaH) came into being. Although Christian scholars after the Rendssance and Reformation periods used the term Jehovah for YHWH, in the 19th and 20th centuries biblical scholars again began to use the form Yahweh. Early Christian writers, Such as Clement of Alexandria in the 2nd century, had used the form Yahweh, thus this pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton was never really lost. Greek transcriptions also indicated that Yhwh Should be pronounced Yahweh." Encyclopedia Britannica (Micropedia, vol. 10)

In the Hebrew Bible the Jews wrote the consonants of the Tetragrammaton as YHWH, but out of reverence for the sacred name of God (or out of fear of violating Exod. 20:7; Lev. 24:16), they vocalized and pronounced it as Adonai or occasionally as Elohim. It is unfortunate, then, that the name was transliterated into German and ultimately into English as Jehovah (which is the way the name is represented in the American Standard Version of 1901), for this conflate form represents the vowels of Adonai superimposed on the consonants of Yahweh, and it was never intended by the Jews to be read as Yehowah (or Jehovah).

The Jewish Encyclopaedia explains the word Jehovah in a similar way. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 6&letter=J (25/9/2005)

"A mispronunciation (introduced by Christian theologians, but almost entirely disregarded by the Jews) of the Hebrew "Yhwh," the (ineffable) name of God (the Tetragrammaton or "Shem ha-Meforash"). This pronunciation is grammatically impossible; it arose through pronouncing the vowels of the "?ere" (marginal reading of the Masorites: = "Adonay") with the consonants of the "ketib" (text-reading: = "Yhwh")"

The first time the Tetragrammaton appeared in an English Bible was on the title page of William Tyndale's Bible translation of 1525, where it was written as Iehouah. This was an interlace of YHVH and Adonai. The King James Version also originally used Iehouah, influenced by the Ben Chayim codex. The King James Bible changed the spelling to Jehovah for the 1762-1769 edition.

Combining YHWH with Adonai is referred to as interlacing, fusing or superimposing. It could hardly be considered accurate or respectful. The illogical fusion of the sacred Name with the vowel points of another name is shown in the preface to The J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible:

"To give the name JHVH the vowels of the word for Lord [Heb. Adonai], is about as hybrid a combination as it would be to spell the name Germany with the vowels in the name Portugal - viz., Gormuna. The monstrous combination Jehovah is not older than about 1520 A.D."

The Watchtower argues that Jehovah is acceptable as it is a translation.

""Yahweh" is obviously a transliteration, whereas "Jehovah" is a translation, and Bible names generally have been translated rather than transliterated." Awake! 1973 March 22 p.27

As already seen, this is not accurate as Jehovah is also a transliteration, but of two separate words. By combining the consonants from YHWH with the vowels from Adonai or possibly Elohim the word Jehovah incorporates the very reason the original pronunciation was lost.

Advocates of the word Jehovah argue that it does not matter whether the word is accurate or not, what is important is that God is distinguished by a personal name.

The Divine Name Brochure p.10, by the Watchtower Society states:

"Even though the modern pronunciation Jehovah might not be exactly the way it was pronounced originally, this in no way detracts from the importance of the name. While many translators favor the pronunciation Yahweh, the New World Translation and also a number of other translations continue the use of the form Jehovah because of people's familiarity with it for centuries."

When translating between languages the pronunciation of names change and so it may not be essential that in English the divine name is pronounced as God originally spoke it to Moses. However, it is ironic that the word Jehovah mixes God's name with the very superstition that caused it to stop being used in the first place. Every time the word Jehovah is pronounced it is a reminder of this very superstition

Jehovah's Witnesses claim Hebrew was the first language as given to Adam and Eve and that it will possibly be the language spoken in the New System. (g71 2/22 p.10) The Watchtower Society prides itself on possessing the pure language, on being the only religion to teach truth.

"Through the Theocratic organization of his anointed witnesses he has been clearing up the Bible truth more and more and thus purifying their speech. So now they talk and live in harmony with the language of the approaching new world. And here, in this year of 1950, his providence brings forth this New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures as a further purification of the speech of his people. He has graciously provided it as a further powerful means for turning to the peoples a "pure language"." Watchtower 1950 September 15 p.320

One might assume then that the Watchtower would prefer to use the accurate version of God's name, rather than the superstitious rendition. The word Jehovah is not an accurate form of the divine name. It can be argued that it is the common pronunciation in English and it is not important to use the name in its correct version. It is strange though that the version chosen actually incorporates the very reason that the divine name stopped being used in the first place.



jagatai
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,475
Location: Los Angeles

07 Apr 2013, 6:47 am

kxmode wrote:
No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.

Hooray for the divine name... Wait. What's your point?


_________________
Never let the weeds get higher than the garden,
Always keep a sapphire in your mind.
(Tom Waits "Get Behind the Mule")


vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

07 Apr 2013, 7:36 am

i dont know if its a name.yahweh means creator in hebrew from the word ahyah meaning:"to be"
hence yahweh means "he who causes to be"

ehyeh asher ehyeh is another holy name,meaning" i am who i am".
sort of implying that the entire universe is relitive to its creator.sort of implying that god is to high to have a name


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


Vigilans
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,181
Location: Montreal

07 Apr 2013, 9:59 am

kxmode wrote:
The Moabite Stone is an inscribed stone set up around 840 BCE by King Mesha of Moab (a kingdom located in modern Jordan). The divine name appears an ancient tetragrammaton.

Image



The language is that of Mordor, which I will not utter here. In the common tongue it says, "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


daydreamer84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Jul 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,001
Location: My own little world

07 Apr 2013, 10:42 am

jagatai wrote:
kxmode wrote:
No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.

Hooray for the divine name... Wait. What's your point?


Yeah, I don't get the point.



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,801
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2013, 3:19 pm

Vigilans wrote:
The language is that of Mordor, which I will not utter here. In the common tongue it says, "One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."


I knew it!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Cash__
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Age: 55
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,390
Location: Missouri

09 Apr 2013, 6:37 pm

jagatai wrote:
kxmode wrote:
No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.

Hooray for the divine name... Wait. What's your point?


For some reasons Jehovah witnesses are obssessed with God's name. I don't get it either. Then again I am a Jemima's Witness:

Quote:
Jemima's Witnesses
A small, newly formed religion that is based on the ideology that Aunt Jemima is an omnipotent being that watches over the stack of pancakes that is the world as we know it. The stack of pancakes represents a multi-layered universe in which the top layer is seen as "heaven"; the middle, earth; and the lower, "hell". The butter on top of the stack is believed to be the very dwelling of Jemima herself! This layer idea is supported loosely by string theory (where multiple universe are layered side by side). It is believed that Mrs. Butterworth resides and rules the Lowest Pancake, where she attempts to thwart Aunt Jemima and all of her syrupy goodness. Mrs.Butterworth is indeed the essence of evil!



Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,801
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

09 Apr 2013, 7:10 pm

Blessed be Aunt Jemima. Deliver us from Mrs. Butterworth.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

09 Apr 2013, 8:33 pm

kxmode wrote:

The Septuagint contains the divine name as well as many other sources. Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.


What it is is יהוה



vermontsavant
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 7 Dec 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,110
Location: Left WP forever

09 Apr 2013, 11:56 pm

ruveyn wrote:
kxmode wrote:

The Septuagint contains the divine name as well as many other sources. Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.


What it is is יהוה
very clever.wish i could do that
the letters Yod,Hie,Waw and Hie again.it still means creator

satan is just hebrew for acuser derived from the word sietnah meaning acusation

jesus is greek for joshua,the hebrew or likely aramaic was Yeshua


_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined


TheBicyclingGuitarist
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,332

10 Apr 2013, 12:09 am

Jehovah's Witnesses are one of those religious denominations that are in blatant denial of the reality of evolution. They deny basically every scientific observation and measurement ever made, because every thing so far observed and measured supports the idea evolution happens and no observation or measurement yet made falsifies it.

My problem with Jehovah's Witnesses (as it is with certain other religious denominations similarly out of touch with demonstrable reality) is how can I possibly trust their opinion on spiritual matters when they are so very very very wrong about something that has so much physical evidence of so many types that clearly shows they are wrong?

I also have problems with their church's history of failed prophecy, and questionable translation of certain verses in "their" Bible, etc. But mainly that they deny what is demonstrably real and by doing so are calling God a liar.

OTOH, they are in some ways the most fundamentalist of fundamentalists, so for being true to what they claim to believe they come closer than some other religious denominations (even if what they claim to believe is falsified by the evidence of the physical world). And I'd like to think that maybe some of those who come knocking at my door do so not because they are insecure in their beliefs and want to add numbers to their church so they can feel more confident, but maybe some of them really do think they are helping me by spreading their opinion of what the Bible says (again, even if some of their beliefs ARE falsified by the evidence of the physical world). I would love to see them (or any of the other reality-denying denominations) admit they are wrong about evolution, but I am not holding my breath.


_________________
"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 120
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

10 Apr 2013, 7:00 am

kxmode wrote:
Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.


Image



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

10 Apr 2013, 9:13 am

vermontsavant wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
kxmode wrote:

The Septuagint contains the divine name as well as many other sources. Religionists can try to strike God's true name from the bible but God has made it impossible for them to do this. No demonic or human power will ever block the preservation of Jehovah's name and his word.


What it is is יהוה
very clever.wish i could do that


No. It means in Hebrew the future imperfect "he will be". It is a name derived from the infinitive of the Hebrew verb meaning "to be". In biblical Hebrew (which is pre-modern Hebrew) this can also be translated "he was". Even though the form is imperfective future it was often used to describe that which was or that which always was. It does NOT mean "creator". The Hebrew word for creator is יוצר which is pronounced yohtzayr.

Why do you do all this bullsh*t with a language you clearly do not know?

And the LXX is a bad Greek translation from the Hebrew. It is because of the LXX we get the nonsense of the "virgin birth". The Greeks did not have a proper word from the Hebrew "almah" which means a young women of marriageable age who might or might not be a virgin (Hebrew maidens were know to f*ck, without a marriage contract). The Greek word παρθένα was used as a translation for "almah". An inexact translation with all sorts of bullsh*t religious consequences.

If you really want to be true to your faith to the following. Turn your English translation of the Bible to Isaiah 7:14. If you find the word "virgin" their consign your translation to the flames. It is a bad, bad translation.

ruveyn