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GoonSquad
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30 Jan 2014, 8:21 am

Right now there's an oil boom happening in North Dakota. There's only one problem. Much of that expensive oil is under CHEAP natural gas!

So, what are the oil companies doing? They're just burning the less profitable gas off, and in process cheating land owners out of their money as they poison the atmosphere with CO2 and waste a nonrenewable, irreplaceable resource.

CLICK!

I think it's time to quote my favorite libertarian again:

Quote:
Men are qualified for civil liberty, in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites; in proportion as their love of justice is above their rapacity; in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption; in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.~Edmund Burke


Modern capitalists are greedy, stupid, wasteful, and reckless. If they refuse to control themselves and act reasonably, it is the DUTY of government to step in and regulate them. That certainly needs to happen in North Dakota right now.


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LoveNotHate
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30 Jan 2014, 9:57 am

GoonSquad wrote:
Right now there's an oil boom happening in North Dakota. There's only one problem. Much of that expensive oil is under CHEAP natural gas!

So, what are the oil companies doing? They're just burning the less profitable gas off, and in process cheating land owners out of their money as they poison the atmosphere with CO2 and waste a nonrenewable, irreplaceable resource.

CLICK!

I think it's time to quote my favorite libertarian again:
Quote:
Men are qualified for civil liberty, in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites; in proportion as their love of justice is above their rapacity; in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption; in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.~Edmund Burke


Modern capitalists are greedy, stupid, wasteful, and reckless. If they refuse to control themselves and act reasonably, it is the DUTY of government to step in and regulate them. That certainly needs to happen in North Dakota right now.


It is good you are realizing that government is not the answer, and that government does not follow a "duty". :D

1. A "capitalism" aka "evil business person" aka "greedy business person" will rip off people - for sure. :twisted:

However, government workers are just as lazy, greedy and self-serving. Their "duty" is to themselves not to the public.

The governor is quoted as saying, ".... an industry task force is working on the issue. The gas processing companies are building plants really as fast as they can."

Therefore, the government has determined that there is no need to step in.

look at this recent decision ...
Jan 13, 2014: EPA permit will allow frackers to continue dumping chemicals into ocean
http://yubanet.com/california/EPA-permi ... upTBMyA2Uk

I don't understand why people think some lazy, greedy, self-serving government worker would give a hoot about oil burning in North Dakota?

2. The oil indusry is regulated. :?:

3. I am sure these people feel cheated. However, homeowners signed contracts and were paid a lot of money for these companies to exploit their lands. You have not established that they were "cheated".

4. It is wasteful, sure. However, perhaps spending the money to build the infrastructre to capitalize on this gas is the bigger waste? Maybe they did the math and determined that is is more wasterful to try to capture the gas?



GoonSquad
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30 Jan 2014, 10:11 am

^^^ Thanks for illustrating my point: People without moral scruples are not worthy of freedom.

Oil companies do not have a moral right to waste resources and poison EVERYONE's atmosphere simply to enhance their own bottom line.


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Sweetleaf
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30 Jan 2014, 12:26 pm

I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


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TheGoggles
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30 Jan 2014, 1:18 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
^^^ Thanks for illustrating my point: People without moral scruples are not worthy of freedom.


They're worthy of civil and human rights, but they should be held accountable.



luanqibazao
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30 Jan 2014, 1:26 pm

The oil industry IS regulated, very strictly regulated, and has been for decades. Those guys can't go to the potty without first filing an Environmental Impact Statement and getting approval from a dozen bureaucrats. What you mean is that they are not being regulated the way you would do it if you were in charge.



TheGoggles
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30 Jan 2014, 1:36 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
The oil industry IS regulated, very strictly regulated, and has been for decades. Those guys can't go to the potty without first filing an Environmental Impact Statement and getting approval from a dozen bureaucrats. What you mean is that they are not being regulated the way you would do it if you were in charge.


http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/04/ ... owels.html



zer0netgain
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30 Jan 2014, 1:38 pm

Given the value of natural gas, why would a business be so STUPID as to not capture it for marketing as a product? That's like letting perfectly good crude oil run into rivers by the barge-full when it's selling for $50/drum.



LoveNotHate
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30 Jan 2014, 1:40 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.



TheGoggles
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30 Jan 2014, 2:28 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.


You know, it's awfully hard to demonize the government and praise the private sector when they're basically symbiotic entities at this point.



LoveNotHate
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30 Jan 2014, 2:38 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.


You know, it's awfully hard to demonize the government and praise the private sector when they're basically symbiotic entities at this point.


Libertarians see the dreadful consequences of turning over power to government, and expecting some greedy, lazy, self-serving government worker to do the work for them.

Look at Bernard "Ponzi Scheme" Madoff, a concerned citizen went to the government regulators and showed them that this guy was operating a PONZI scheme, and they did nothing. Then when the PONZI scheme is exposed, people cry, "We need more regulation!"



Sweetleaf
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30 Jan 2014, 2:51 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.


You know, it's awfully hard to demonize the government and praise the private sector when they're basically symbiotic entities at this point.


Libertarians see the dreadful consequences of turning over power to government, and expecting some greedy, lazy, self-serving government worker to do the work for them.

Look at Bernard "Ponzi Scheme" Madoff, a concerned citizen went to the government regulators and showed them that this guy was operating a PONZI scheme, and they did nothing. Then when the PONZI scheme is exposed, people cry, "We need more regulation!"


In that case I'd be saying 'we need a more competent government to enforce the regulation' the government needs to be held accountable, by the people. Not exactly sure how to do that, since right now they seem to only be accountable to whatever corporate lobbyists buy off the government so they make policies in their favor.


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luanqibazao
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Robdemanc
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30 Jan 2014, 3:27 pm

That is terrible about the gas in Dakota. They could at least sell it to Britain because we are running out and everyone is going mad here because the gas companies are fracking and it seems no one wants them to frack.



GoonSquad
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01 Feb 2014, 8:52 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.


Hmm... North Dakota's government does seem to be dominated by Republicans. MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT AFTER ALL! :lol:

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi ... ive_branch

This is what GOP business-friendly small government gets you.


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Ganondox
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01 Feb 2014, 10:17 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
TheGoggles wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think it is important to have reasonable regulations for corporations...that is not so say people shouldn't be able to create a buisiness and profit from it, but there has to be regulations. This just sounds wasteful and quite harmful to the environment, and there should be regulations to prevent such things.


Local environmental regulation of the area was turned over to some lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers , and now the local people are powerless to stop the environmental destruction.

Regulations are only effective if the lazy, greedy, self-serving government workers want to enforce them.


You know, it's awfully hard to demonize the government and praise the private sector when they're basically symbiotic entities at this point.


Libertarians see the dreadful consequences of turning over power to government, and expecting some greedy, lazy, self-serving government worker to do the work for them.

Look at Bernard "Ponzi Scheme" Madoff, a concerned citizen went to the government regulators and showed them that this guy was operating a PONZI scheme, and they did nothing. Then when the PONZI scheme is exposed, people cry, "We need more regulation!"


As opposed to greedy, lazy, self serving corporate workers? At least the govt is supposed to be a servant to the people, rather than profits. Their self motivation is much more pro-social.


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