When did you grow weary of liberals?
thomas81
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04 Jul 2014, 4:57 pm
seaturtleisland wrote:
salad wrote:
seaturtleisland wrote:
salad wrote:
The moment criticizing homosexuality became deemed as bigoted and the critic a bigot
The moment Chick Fil E was attempted to be shut down because the founders were Christians and tacitly disagreed with homosexuality.
The moment Chick Fil E was attempted to be shut down because the founders were Christians and tacitly disagreed with homosexuality.
What is there to criticize about homosexuality? If you're criticizing homosexuality you may be bigoted but you might not. Maybe you're just ridiculous. That'd be like criticizing eating, bike riding, and masturbating. If you criticized bike riding people would just laugh at you. It's the same with homosexuality.
Moot point. You still can't deprive someone of their freedom to criticize
Moot point. Laughing at your ridiculous criticism and/or calling you a bigot doesn't deprive you of your freedom to criticize.
I call BS on the OP.
its seems to be the conservatives and right wingers in general that are fastest to silence others. their political views and right to artistic expression.
Look at how the Bush administration introduced the patriot act, how successive right wing governments such as in Poland wanted to bring in prohibitive internet restrictions and how GOP politicians in particular want to bring in laws to shut down the sex industry and pornography.
04 Jul 2014, 6:24 pm
thomas81 wrote:
RushKing wrote:
When I grew anti-capitalist 3 years ago.
damn, beat me to it.
Interesting. I've always associated conservatives more with capitalism in my mind, lol although we don't seem to use the word liberal here in quite the same way they do in other parts of the world (although I see that starting to change as well). As far as politics go, our Liberal Party and Conservative Party aren't always all that different from each other. One just does the opposite of what the other happens to be doing/saying at any given moment. As of right now, though, I would gladly see anyone else running Canada than our current Conservative government.
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luanqibazao
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05 Jul 2014, 12:48 am
I love liberals, a word which comes from a Latin root meaning "freedom." Without Enlightenment liberals like Locke, and liberals of the American Revolution like Jefferson and Madison, we wouldn't have our modern society with its personal freedoms and life-enhancing technology. Later liberals like Bastiat, Acton, Hazlitt, Mises, and Rand have honored places on my bookshelves. And my here-and-now friends also favor individual rights and personal liberty.
On the other hand, statists ? who want to use government guns in order to control every minute detail of everybody's lives, and who bizarrely sometimes call themselves liberals ? they can all go hang. Out of power, they sometimes remember that liberals are supposed to care about civil liberties; in power, they become the current DC mob, easily the most illiberal administration in US history.
05 Jul 2014, 2:47 am
Sweetleaf wrote:
I have yet to, though I've been quite weary of all the b*tching I hear about liberals....liberals this, liberals that, you'd think every problem in this country exists due to liberals. Funny since the word means
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
today's liberalism isn't real liberalism as per its definition. they favor less freedom and liberty. instead supporting more government control over all aspects of our lives.
I can not get along with a liberal democrat. I am and like non liberal democrats. I support choice, education, and welfare programs, I do not support many of the other issues the democrat party controlled by liberals vote for.
Kraichgauer
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05 Jul 2014, 3:00 am
sly279 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I have yet to, though I've been quite weary of all the b*tching I hear about liberals....liberals this, liberals that, you'd think every problem in this country exists due to liberals. Funny since the word means
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
today's liberalism isn't real liberalism as per its definition. they favor less freedom and liberty. instead supporting more government control over all aspects of our lives.
I can not get along with a liberal democrat. I am and like non liberal democrats. I support choice, education, and welfare programs, I do not support many of the other issues the democrat party controlled by liberals vote for.
Instead, your satisfied with conservatives deciding what women can do with their bodies, or about people's sexuality?
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
05 Jul 2014, 10:27 am
Quote:
When did you grow weary of liberals?
I would say that the genesis of my conservatism was formed when I was in my teens and grew weary of the liberal insistence on distribution of wealth. By that I don't mean taxation to operate the government and publicly funded services that we all need but the greedy insistence of the have-nots that they have the right to the earnings of the haves. That, and all this talk about freedom except when it comes to gun rights.
Those two are what initially made me distance myself from liberals.
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
05 Jul 2014, 11:30 am
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
When did you grow weary of liberals?
I would say that the genesis of my conservatism was formed when I was in my teens and grew weary of the liberal insistence on distribution of wealth. By that I don't mean taxation to operate the government and publicly funded services that we all need but the greedy insistence of the have-nots that they have the right to the earnings of the haves. That, and all this talk about freedom except when it comes to gun rights.
Those two are what initially made me distance myself from liberals.
But isn't there a difference between a have-not (on welfare) who doesn't work and a have-not (a janitor or hotel maid) who works just as hard (if not harder) than a CEO or professional athlete? I've heard the argument against distribution of wealth (and welfare) that it eliminates the incentive to work hard but hard work isn't the whole story.
Sweetleaf
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05 Jul 2014, 12:26 pm
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
When did you grow weary of liberals?
I would say that the genesis of my conservatism was formed when I was in my teens and grew weary of the liberal insistence on distribution of wealth. By that I don't mean taxation to operate the government and publicly funded services that we all need but the greedy insistence of the have-nots that they have the right to the earnings of the haves. That, and all this talk about freedom except when it comes to gun rights.
Those two are what initially made me distance myself from liberals.
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We won't go back.
05 Jul 2014, 12:46 pm
seaturtleisland and Sweetleaf:
That was a gen-er-al-is-at-ion. I'm not going to write an essay on it since my in my long and illustrious posting history I've given my opinions on welfare several times before and they are not quite as austere as you seem to wish they were.
G'day....
_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
05 Jul 2014, 1:22 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I have yet to, though I've been quite weary of all the b*tching I hear about liberals....liberals this, liberals that, you'd think every problem in this country exists due to liberals. Funny since the word means
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
liberal
lib·er·al [lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl]
adjective
1.
favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3.
of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism, especially the freedom of the individual and governmental guarantees of individual rights and liberties.
yet they tend to instead support freedom of the the mass over freedom of the individual and only support rights and liberties of those they choose. They then trample on the rights and liberties of those they dislike.
4.
favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5.
favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
what is so bad about that? So I wonder when people say liberal do they even know what that means or is it just easy to jump on the liberals are the devil bandwagon? Or is it that we have a s**t ton of people posing to be 'liberals' but acting more like facists and these represent most of what people refer to as liberals? Or are there really that many people that think progressive change has to be some evil devious plot to screw everyone over?
So I suppose aside from being fed up with all the whining about liberals I am a little perplexed by the whole thing as well.
Also just like conservative does not mean 'republican' and liberal does not mean 'democrat' but it seems they then get used interchangeably, maybe that is another issue...I think the republicans and democrats both do a terrible job of representing the people. I likely lean more towards liberal ideas since I am all about positive changes to societies and less government interference in peoples personal lives but I am do not like the democrat party, as far as I know there is not a specific 'liberal' politcal party and I doubt there is a specific 'conservative' political party....politics are a mess, seriously.
today's liberalism isn't real liberalism as per its definition. they favor less freedom and liberty. instead supporting more government control over all aspects of our lives.
I can not get along with a liberal democrat. I am and like non liberal democrats. I support choice, education, and welfare programs, I do not support many of the other issues the democrat party controlled by liberals vote for.
Instead, your satisfied with conservatives deciding what women can do with their bodies, or about people's sexuality?
the whole conservatives are fighting a war on women , they want to make women into slaves and lock them in the kitchen is so stupid and false.
by the way saying we don't want to pay for something isn't the same as saying you can't do it, Like I don't want to pay for people to smoke weed. I don't care if they do it. this whole mentally of you are are tither all for something or all against it, is irritating.
plus not all conservatives are anti abortion(seems to be the defining point about a woman's body. as being able to abort a baby is the only thing women can do with their body lol.) just like not all of them are pro gun, or christian. just like not all democrats are anti gun pro choice. I know quite a few dems who are anti abortion Christians. in fact its quite normal here.
that said and I've said in the past I don't want either side in complete control. they are both bad. I prefer they fight and fight and get nothing done when it comes to most things. when you have either side in control it is a gurantee someone rights will be trampled .
I am anti abortion and pro choice. see how its not either or thing.
I don't want abortions, I think they are wrong. I believe in peoples right to make their own choices on almost all matters.
I don't think abortions should be used as conception. people should just use condoms, the pill, iud, etc. I am not even against plan b being used the morning after. though they really should have used the above ^
but to let a baby form afer 12 weeks then go and have it killed. and do so a few times. I'd be like hmm seems this is your 3rd time. nope. you have to have this one. should have used one of our many free condoms in the lobby.
on that matter. there are a few democrats/liberals who want to tell a woman what they can do with their body too. yet they are ignored due to being part of the party.
05 Jul 2014, 3:15 pm
I was for a short time after college more conservative as a means of pointing the middle finger at my self-righteous liberal friends from college who spent most of the time treating me like crap and being overtly and hypocritically racist towards me.
I got past that and adopted some liberal views. However, my biggest weariness with liberals isn't the bullying as it would be for most people. Bullying can be applied to any political ideology IMO. My weariness with liberals comes from a lack of rationality while claiming to be the rational side. They get too emotional about something instead of stopping to think "is this the best course of action" and some of their ideas and plans can be pretty unrealistic at times.
So far the most ridiculous thing by liberals I've come across was the New York City mayor's plan to get rid of horse drawn carriages (a major symbolic tourist activity in NYC) in favor of vintage vehicles. Not only does the idea eliminate charm, it replaces it with tackiness.
Kraichgauer
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Gender: Male
Posts: 47,845
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
05 Jul 2014, 4:07 pm
sly279-
I actually don't want to see anyone's rights trampled, either, but the sad fact of the matter is, never have the "have not" won out against the "haves" (despite what tea baggers might tell you). All I'm talking about is a hand up offered to the needy, even though conservatives claim they're losing so much to have some tax money diverted to help them.
As for the abortion issue - actually, you and I probably agree more than disagree on that issue. In my heart, I'm pro-life, though in my head I'm pro-choice.
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iamnotaparakeet
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05 Jul 2014, 4:53 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279-
I actually don't want to see anyone's rights trampled, either, but the sad fact of the matter is, never have the "have not" won out against the "haves" (despite what tea baggers might tell you). All I'm talking about is a hand up offered to the needy, even though conservatives claim they're losing so much to have some tax money diverted to help them.
As for the abortion issue - actually, you and I probably agree more than disagree on that issue. In my heart, I'm pro-life, though in my head I'm pro-choice.
I actually don't want to see anyone's rights trampled, either, but the sad fact of the matter is, never have the "have not" won out against the "haves" (despite what tea baggers might tell you). All I'm talking about is a hand up offered to the needy, even though conservatives claim they're losing so much to have some tax money diverted to help them.
As for the abortion issue - actually, you and I probably agree more than disagree on that issue. In my heart, I'm pro-life, though in my head I'm pro-choice.
I am on welfare, so I indeed understand the need for giving a hand up. the whole they stealing my money and giving it to others who don't work is a major issue I have with conservitives, though people with that mindset are tea party which I do not like. at least some people in the tea party want me lined up and shot, others just want me cut off and die somewhere they can't see or know about it.
There have been people with that mindset who lose their job and have to go on welfare, they then realize how important it is.
course there are some who are on welfare, work and also get food stamps who are anti welfare. I don't get them.
my friend's dad is a trucker and constantly post tea party stuff about how people like steal money from them. my friend is like well you're different. o.O. his other son is on welfare and in the marine.
what I don't get is if they see me and they are like you're different you really need it. why can't they process that there are millions of people like me who also really need it.
though maybe they really think I am just a thief and just don't want to say it to my face.
I am probably a independent. but that's no fun.
the left drives me towards feeling like a conservative due to guns, and immigration, the right drives me to feeling like a horrible person cause I think we need welfare, better education and healthcare(though I don't think the ACA was the right move)
