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If there was an Autistic state would you migrate there?

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Would you move to a state for ASD people?
Yes 32%  32%  [ 28 ]
No 55%  55%  [ 48 ]
Maybe (state why) 14%  14%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 88

Dox47
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09 Dec 2014, 1:18 am

Upon further reflection, a question occurs:

Did the OP realize that he was proposing Galt's Gulch? The irony is strong...


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09 Dec 2014, 2:28 am

As I live in Washington state, I thought I already did. :lol:
But seriously, I voted no, as without NT's, we'd all starve or die of exposure. Then again without us Aspies, they'd live uninteresting lives without the arts or science.


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Last edited by Kraichgauer on 09 Dec 2014, 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Dec 2014, 2:32 am

RichardJ wrote:
Absolutely not! But not for the reasons most say.

I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum. I believe in a conservative, lassey-faire, free market, limited government society where taxes are low and personal freedom is high.

I am one of the few conservative autistics.

The US government is already very close to being a full progressive, socialist disaster. :x

Feel free to argue with me but that is my reason.


I agree with a more liberal/communist society where personal freedom is high...I don't see why people think a community based society would have to=lack of freedom, its ridiculous. Lol and the U.S government is nowhere close to being socialist...but feel free to explain how you figure it is as I am curious as to your reasoning.


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09 Dec 2014, 2:34 am

chagya wrote:
Why do Conservatives here keep perpetuating this falsehood that unless there is full Conservative control that there will be no religious freedom, no free speech, no right to bear arms, "government stalking" etc? I do not see anyone trying to close or eliminate churches or your right to worship. Despite the lies to the contrary your right to bear arms would not be taken away, it would just be regulated more than you would like to see. No one is trying to stop you from speaking your mind. People would be much more likely to exist together were it not for all the lies and BS about Liberal government It seems like you want zero regulations and laws with the misguided belief that if only everyone could just do and say anything they please, arm yourselves to the hilt and run businesses with absolutely zero oversight with bare minimum taxation that you could have half of what you now enjoy in a "civilized society". Infrastructure crumbling and in decay because no one is willing to do what is necessary to maintain roads, bridges and transportation systems, which is, has and always will be through taxation. Conservative politicians trying to decimate our education system, creating a society of mindless, uneducated zombies. You want to create some form of neanderthal, dog eat dog, only the strong survive and screw everyone else if they need help. That is not a civilized society, but I don't think these Conservatives care about anything civilized. You are no better, or more worthy than anyone else in this world, regardless how hard you think you work or how much smarter you think you are than us lowly Liberals. Your society would not work, at least not unless you are going to regulate and restrict population. Every day would be a literal street war just to get through a 24 hour period. Conservatives have this notion that this culture would be just fine, because of course THEY will always prevail, because of just having more firepower. Your society would not be a democracy, or a republic, or anything where freedom is for everyone. In your society only the strong and well armed would be free. You would purge society of the weak and frail and mentally inept. You have no desire for coexistence, you want total domination, by force if necessary but you would never call your own self built society a dictatorship, would you?

You live in a tv fantasy land.


:wtg:


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09 Dec 2014, 8:24 pm

No, I would not migrate to such a place. Yet, I'd consider diverse places (not too crowded), that lean towards liberal values. I've had awesome experiences with progressive-minded NeuroTypicals!

It's important to maintain at least some awareness of neurotypical perspectives.



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10 Dec 2014, 5:01 am

No. Separating ourselves officially from the rest of the society would only make us more of a misunderstood "other" in the eyes of NT's and make it harder for us to get respect and help. After all, who says we'd be able to help each other or even get along? Having the same mental condition is not enough to guarantee that. Just because we can relate does not mean we can communicate.

If someone gathered us all together, I'd still be too shy and uncomfortable to say much of anything, let alone contribute to this hypothetical state. I'm glad there are NT's around who are willing to help me and represent my interests. You just have to be careful which ones you trust.


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10 Dec 2014, 5:30 am

Persimmonpudding wrote:
Forbes, a right-leaning business journal, ranks the top countries in the world for doing business. Why do I see so many socialist states at the top of that list?

Then again, the Nordic model is not conventionally socialist. Instead, the state acts as an intermediary between different groups, and their governments tend to be almost shockingly pro-business. In fact, under a center-right (for Scandinavia) "liberal-conservative" government, Denmark has one of the most relaxed employment-at-will systems in the world, thanks to a carefully crafted support-and-retraining system called "flexicurity."

On the other hand, it still pretty much defeats the idea that socialism and thriving business are mutually exclusive. Conversely, they seem to go hand-in-hand if you count the Nordic model.

When even a right-wing business journal is ranking one of the top ten most socialist countries in the world, Ireland, as the number one place in the world to do business, the argument against socialism seems to falter. Could it be that socialism not only gives us a better quality of life and cleaner air but also makes us rich? Amazing!



^^^ That article about the most socialist countries in the world is a big mess though. On the paragraph on Finland they forget halfway what country they were talking about and they suddenly call it the Netherlands. Below the paragraph on Belgium they have a picture of "The Hague in Belgium" but that city is not in Belgium at all. I know, I've been to the place on the picture.
I like the first article, the countries in Northern Europe often score high on economic freedom. I posted a different list of economic freedom earlier here somewhere.



Last edited by trollcatman on 10 Dec 2014, 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Dec 2014, 5:37 am

RichardJ wrote:

At the current time these countries are humming, but ten more years into the demographic transition they will not.

Their intitlement and social welfare programs are already pushing them into debt because the birth rate to support these programs monetarily is no longer high enough. Someone has to pay for these programs and that is currently China. But what happens I ask when China asks for their money or pulls the plug on loans?

Before Franklin Roosevelt and the new deal deficit spending was a no no unless in a wartime situation. Also, intitlement to the public was non existent and taxes were low.


In the case of the Netherlands, most of the government bonds are held by their own citizens directly, or via retirement funds and savings. The situation in Japan is similar. And today governments can borrow money almost for free, Germany for a while has even RECEIVED interest on their loans instead of having to pay (and note the extremely low interest before and after too).

Image



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10 Dec 2014, 9:49 pm

Two ways of analyzing this. Nice to be around others like me, that understand me without having to explain. But, then, in an Autistic State, I'd be like everyone else and might get bored. The way things currently are, I'm "unique"...which is more interesting. :-p



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10 Dec 2014, 10:45 pm

RichardJ wrote:
Absolutely not! But not for the reasons most say.

I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum. I believe in a conservative, lassey-faire, free market, limited government society where taxes are low and personal freedom is high.

I am one of the few conservative autistics.

The US government is already very close to being a full progressive, socialist disaster. :x

Feel free to argue with me but that is my reason.


Well said. One thing, though. What you are describing above fits much closer with Classical Liberalism or Libertarianism, not Conservatism.



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11 Dec 2014, 8:17 pm

thomas81 wrote:
If a country for ASD people was formed and without any animosity or ill wishes of any nearby peoples, would you migrate there?



I have not read the thread, but I find the question incredibly fallacious. You seem to be suggesting that the only reason we get picked on is due to the failings of people not on the spectrum, what a load of nonsense. Nothing would change, if anything it would be far worse. To stereotype in the extreme we are socially inept, and unable to correctly interpret what the true intentions of a particular communication is. How the heck do you think a society comprised of people with varying degrees of those characteristics would perform? My guess is the level of emotional trauma in such a society would be many times higher than normal.


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11 Dec 2014, 9:43 pm

An exclusively autistic state would probably last only one lifetime.



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12 Dec 2014, 5:12 am

thomas81 wrote:
If a country for ASD people was formed and without any animosity or ill wishes of any nearby peoples, would you migrate there?

A society consisting of nothing but autistic people would be awesome to an extent, but the bolded is seriously wishful thinking. Everyone being autistic doesn't grant us a get out of jail free card for everyone to be accepting of everyone's behaviors. A lot of the problems in modern society with politics and religious differences will still manifest in an autistic society.


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12 Dec 2014, 9:10 am

Why not an Austist phyle, with communes and enclaves, providing services to it's (Autist) members?



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12 Dec 2014, 9:36 am

People with autism are people, too.

With all its benefits, with all its irritations.



o0iella
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12 Dec 2014, 10:50 am

I think there is a strong need for an autonomous Autistic community, as many autistics life an undignified existence in NT and future looks increasingly bleak. Many autistic are marginalised, not because of some intrinsic deficit, but because our ways are incompatible with NT ways. We are permanent foreigners in NT land, so why not create a country to go to. I also believe that a lot of "co-morbid" problems, like anxiety, depression and PTSD are results of attempting and failing to get by in NT society, which could be eliminated in a world where you are understood.

Also, when the genes for Autism are identified, with the way society is structured, most autistic babies will ended being aborted, potentially wiping us out. The situation for in NT society is precarious and bleak at the moment.

There have been constant arguments over whether autism is a disability, or a divergence. I don't think this argument can be resolved as long as autistics are marginalised in NT society.

I have a hunch that a community of Autistic people can thrive just as well as a Neurotypical people. It may be tough at first, but I think eventually a group of Autistic people will find a consensus that works for us. I think it would be great to at least try to make it work. I don't get how some of the posters here are certain it will fail when it hasn't even been tried. If it succeeds, it will change the view of what Autism is to the outside world, and if it fails, then at least we can say we tried.

I went to Autscape last summer and I was pleasantly surprised at how well people get along. I thought there would be many arguments, misunderstandings, and people needing help to function basically, but for the most part, I was proved wrong. I felt a strong sense of being understood and listened to that I just didn't get in NT society. This was a common response from other people who attended. I think if we have a common goal that's broad enough to encompass the majority of people, then we can rub along just as well as a bunch of NT's.

Many Jewish people used to deride the Zionists before WW2 using similar arguments that have been used on this forum, when the events there showed how hostile european society could be towards Jews, the survivors went and carved out a state against even greater odds than we would face...and it worked and is thriving today. If they can achieve this, then we should at least try.