Battlers for tolerance engage in actual persecution
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,835
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
How would you know?! I was addressing Kraichgauer's post, not yours.
Because you had responded to my quote.
And as to respond to you: what Aristophanes said.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Should we destroy their livelihoods?
If I recorded audio proving their intent to discriminate against a hypothetical catering client and I gave the audio to you, would you post it on the Internet and encourage the general public to boycott, write nasty reviews, and drive them out of business, causing them to lay off their staff, lose their life savings, and hope for other work? If that fate befell a Mormon father with five kids or a childless Persian couple in their fifties or a Hispanic woman who sunk her nest egg into a pupusa truck, should that, do you think, be considered a victory for the gay-rights movement?
But they are the ones who started by saying they would refuse business to gay people. Then other people refuse to do business with them. When your business is reliant on customers it is part of your job not to alienate potential customers and make sure you have a decent public image.
Around here there is a store that decided to stop selling products from Israel, so they were boycotted by the pro-Israel crowd and maybe got a few more customers from the pro-Palestine crowd. It's a business decision. I personally prefer to buy stuff based on product and price regardless of who made it, but not everyone is a capitalist.
And another thing: the business that would've gone to the bigoted people in that article isn't gone, the money went to someone who was better able to have a decent public image (a non-bigot, or a bigot that keeps it to himself for business reasons).
A few years ago when Chick-fil-A's CEO spoke out against gay marriage business actually picked up when like minded customers flocked to thier stores. I think it was like a 29 % increase in sales for a while.
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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
What angers me is the false flag nature of all the debate.
Most gays/lesbians have no issue if a Christian florist, caterer or photographer doesn't wish to do their wedding...no more than they would want to have to have a gay business do something for an anti-gay group planning a protest rally.
Frankly, it's groups with an agenda going out and making a fuss. The businesses attacked for standing their ground are often attacked by these groups, not by any identifiable "victim."
In the end, you can't force a person to do business with someone else against their wishes. There are some grounds upon which you can't refuse to do business with someone, but there is a limit to what that is. A baker could be made to sell a cake to someone who just walks in, but special occasion cakes might be problematic based on the special occasion. Ultimately, unless there is a proven absence of options (meaning they are the only provider in town), nobody is harmed because they have to go to another baker, florist or photographer. At most, a secular or otherwise "for hire" wedding venue would inflict harm if the locale was truly unique and a highly desired location with no equivalent readily available.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,835
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
Most gays/lesbians have no issue if a Christian florist, caterer or photographer doesn't wish to do their wedding...no more than they would want to have to have a gay business do something for an anti-gay group planning a protest rally.
Frankly, it's groups with an agenda going out and making a fuss. The businesses attacked for standing their ground are often attacked by these groups, not by any identifiable "victim."
In the end, you can't force a person to do business with someone else against their wishes. There are some grounds upon which you can't refuse to do business with someone, but there is a limit to what that is. A baker could be made to sell a cake to someone who just walks in, but special occasion cakes might be problematic based on the special occasion. Ultimately, unless there is a proven absence of options (meaning they are the only provider in town), nobody is harmed because they have to go to another baker, florist or photographer. At most, a secular or otherwise "for hire" wedding venue would inflict harm if the locale was truly unique and a highly desired location with no equivalent readily available.
They certainly can be forced to cater to a customer, even if the business owner is racist. We've just grown in our collective consciousness as a society that most of us include sexual orientation with race, or religion, as reason for not denying service.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,835
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
If the truth be known, I'd rather be known as a social justice warrior than a culture warrior.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
If the truth be known, I'd rather be known as a social justice warrior than a culture warrior.
Agreed. When do we start the meetings?
Most gays/lesbians have no issue if a Christian florist, caterer or photographer doesn't wish to do their wedding...no more than they would want to have to have a gay business do something for an anti-gay group planning a protest rally.
Frankly, it's groups with an agenda going out and making a fuss. The businesses attacked for standing their ground are often attacked by these groups, not by any identifiable "victim."
In the end, you can't force a person to do business with someone else against their wishes. There are some grounds upon which you can't refuse to do business with someone, but there is a limit to what that is. A baker could be made to sell a cake to someone who just walks in, but special occasion cakes might be problematic based on the special occasion. Ultimately, unless there is a proven absence of options (meaning they are the only provider in town), nobody is harmed because they have to go to another baker, florist or photographer. At most, a secular or otherwise "for hire" wedding venue would inflict harm if the locale was truly unique and a highly desired location with no equivalent readily available.
They certainly can be forced to cater to a customer, even if the business owner is racist. We've just grown in our collective consciousness as a society that most of us include sexual orientation with race, or religion, as reason for not denying service.
Without taking a side on this subject in particular, I'm just going to point out that collective consciousness is complete bullcrap. We'll fight for the right for someone to be able cater from someone who hates them, but we probably wouldn't lift a finger to save that person's life or many people's lives.
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Now take a trip with me but don't be surprised when things aren't what they seem. I've known it from the start all these good ideas will tear your brain apart. Scared, but you can follow me. I'm too weird to live but much too rare to die. - a7x