Facts about racism
08 Oct 2016, 10:24 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
I actually don't know your race, Viper.
Nobody here knows the race of any of the other members, unless they choose to declare it. There just seems to be an assumption by many posters here that everyone else is American, male and white, until they say different.
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Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,839
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
08 Oct 2016, 5:06 pm
L_Holmes wrote:
AspE wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
Well now you know that this is not my intent, so I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insinuating that I believe crazy things which I never said, like that all blacks have genetic criminality.
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
You see the surface symptoms, but you fail to connect it to our outrageously horrible history of racism and mistreatment which continues (albeit to a somewhat lesser degree of obviousness) to this day. How about you take responsibility for the problems of your country?
"Surface symptoms"? No, I just gave you the core of the problem. What, do you think these families are falling apart because white police come in and separate them?
No, they are choosing to do it. They are choosing to have a bunch of kids they can't provide for, they are choosing to commit crimes. Do you think black people don't make their own decisions?
That young boy I was talking about, they took him to see his dad in prison. He hadn't seen him for eight years. When his dad saw him, he immediately started crying, and then they talked for a bit. When he asked his father why he got put in prison, his father laughed, and said, "Murder and attempted murder."
Then he gave his son some advice, something along the lines of, "You gotta do good out there. Don't end up in here."
Huh, that's strange. He didn't seem to blame white people. Maybe it's because he realized that it was his own decision to kill another human being that got him locked up, and not his skin color.
Maybe you should realize that to. You seem to think of black people as mindless, helpless animals. You act as though any time a black person does something wrong, it's always the fault of white racists.
So you don't think black people have a free will of their own then? Because free will entails being able to independently make good or bad moral decisions, and to be therefore responsible for them. So by holding white people responsible for everything black people are doing, you are implying that black people cannot act independently of white people.
I know you think you're doing good here by attacking me and calling me a racist, but you are not. You are the one being racist, and you are part of the problem, not the solution.
What are your proposed solutions, anyway? Seeing as I'm white, you're certainly not gonna give my ideas a chance. I'm guessing you just want reparations for all black people in America, right?
I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't blacks who do bad things, or that they have no free will, or that whites are responsible for all their problems. The point we're trying to make, at least in part, is that many police officers make no distinction between blacks, but see them all as potential violent criminals, whether they are or not. That, and many people in poor black neighborhoods face socio-economic problems that make crime more likely. The same circumstances had been faced in Italian, eastern European Jewish, and Irish Catholic inner city areas of the past, and many people there had also ended up in criminal enterprises that may not have always happened had the circumstances of low income and treatment as pariahs by other Americans not existed.
And I'm pretty sure black men aren't the only ones going to prison, then regretting where their lives went wrong.
And trust me, if people only had children when they could only afford them, then most of us wouldn't exist, as the great majority of us had had forebears who hadn't the means to care for children, but had them anyway. To dismissively say, "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em," is just hard hearted. And no, I don't consider it hardhearted to have the Goddamn tax payers spend a sliver of their income on children who might otherwise face malnutrition, homelessness, and lack of medical care.
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-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
09 Oct 2016, 12:28 am
from an australian perspective, i believe that the police in the USA are extremely paranoid and trigger happy.
it's like they fear so much for their lives that that panic and shoot before they think.
when i watch the american show called "cops", i see the heightened worry those police have for their safety, and even when they just pull over a car with a broken tail light, they still have their hands on their guns and approach the car cautiously. any sudden movements cause the police to panic.
everyone i see get arrested on "cops" always has their hands put in handcuffs behind their back, no matter how trivial the charge.
when i watch australian equivalents of the "cops" show, i note that they have no expectations of trouble from anyone they approach. when they pull cars over, they just get out and walk casually to them and treat them friendly. no hands on guns or shouting to people to keep their hands in the air.
when most people are arrested in australia, they are not even handcuffed, but if they are, then they always are cuffed with their hands in front of them (which allows them to scratch their nose and stuff).
it is because you have guns everywhere over there that the police never know what to expect, and your population is so large that the potential to run into mindless drugged out freaks is so much more than in australia.
so the cops over there just scream like little girls hysterically when they are telling someone to hit the ground and everyone's agog, and it eventuates that the person on the ground only has a joint in their pocket and is charged with some trivial offense.
no one expects guns to be produced in australia. it's so uncommon that it does not bear being paranoid about.
over in the USA, pushing into traffic can get you shot in the head.
potential firearms in every potential freak's car's gloveboxes.
09 Oct 2016, 5:31 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
I really wish some black person, or somebody of a different race than "white," can come to this thread, and give his/her perspective. That would be really interesting.
Why? What's wrong with the opinions of white people?
Honestly, people need to stop falling into this idea that a black person has a more valid opinion on the topic of race and racism. I've seen plenty of videos of extremely racist black people, talking all this weird crap about their melanin and how it makes them better, calling whites aliens and monsters. Am I to take their ideas to be true simply because they're black?
I understand that some personal experience can be relevant to a discussion such as this, but when people are saying things like, "I'm black, so therefore I know X Y and Z," that is a problem. If I was saying, I'm white, so my opinion should be preferred over a non-white, I doubt many would be convinced. Yet it seems when it's a person of color, it's easy to fall into that trap.
I'm not saying that is what you are doing, but I do think it is important to bring this up, because I've seen this sort of thing a lot, and I don't think it's a good sign. If people were becoming less racist, then skin color should be about as relevant as eye color when it comes to opinions. Yet plenty of people are quite willing to say, "We should listen to people of color on this issue."
Personally, I think we should listen to whoever has the best ideas, not whoever has the correct skin color. Once again, I don't think personal experience and identity are never relevant, but for the most part, they're not.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
09 Oct 2016, 6:06 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
AspE wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
Well now you know that this is not my intent, so I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insinuating that I believe crazy things which I never said, like that all blacks have genetic criminality.
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
You see the surface symptoms, but you fail to connect it to our outrageously horrible history of racism and mistreatment which continues (albeit to a somewhat lesser degree of obviousness) to this day. How about you take responsibility for the problems of your country?
"Surface symptoms"? No, I just gave you the core of the problem. What, do you think these families are falling apart because white police come in and separate them?
No, they are choosing to do it. They are choosing to have a bunch of kids they can't provide for, they are choosing to commit crimes. Do you think black people don't make their own decisions?
That young boy I was talking about, they took him to see his dad in prison. He hadn't seen him for eight years. When his dad saw him, he immediately started crying, and then they talked for a bit. When he asked his father why he got put in prison, his father laughed, and said, "Murder and attempted murder."
Then he gave his son some advice, something along the lines of, "You gotta do good out there. Don't end up in here."
Huh, that's strange. He didn't seem to blame white people. Maybe it's because he realized that it was his own decision to kill another human being that got him locked up, and not his skin color.
Maybe you should realize that to. You seem to think of black people as mindless, helpless animals. You act as though any time a black person does something wrong, it's always the fault of white racists.
So you don't think black people have a free will of their own then? Because free will entails being able to independently make good or bad moral decisions, and to be therefore responsible for them. So by holding white people responsible for everything black people are doing, you are implying that black people cannot act independently of white people.
I know you think you're doing good here by attacking me and calling me a racist, but you are not. You are the one being racist, and you are part of the problem, not the solution.
What are your proposed solutions, anyway? Seeing as I'm white, you're certainly not gonna give my ideas a chance. I'm guessing you just want reparations for all black people in America, right?
I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't blacks who do bad things, or that they have no free will, or that whites are responsible for all their problems.
Really? That's interesting, because not many people here, including you, seem to be at all okay with my assessment that black people are doing some pretty bad things independently of white people. That makes me racist apparently, so I can only assume that you people believe that it's all totally the fault of white people when a black guy murders another black guy, or doesn't take care of his kids. If that's not what you believe, then why would you take issue with what I'm saying?
Quote:
The point we're trying to make, at least in part, is
Let me guess: f**k white people?
Quote:
that many police officers make no distinction between blacks, but see them all as potential violent criminals, whether they are or not.
Yep, f**k white people. You're just making a broad generalization, and it is based on nothing other than your idea that white people are racist. Could you actually provide evidence for this claim?
Quote:
That, and many people in poor black neighborhoods face socio-economic problems that make crime more likely. The same circumstances had been faced in Italian, eastern European Jewish, and Irish Catholic inner city areas of the past, and many people there had also ended up in criminal enterprises that may not have always happened had the circumstances of low income and treatment as pariahs by other Americans not existed.
So what is your point exactly? This may come as a shock to you, but I am anti-criminal regardless of skin color. If we had a huge amount of crime coming from white people, I'd be criticizing white people. But as it happens, black people are committing the lion's share of crimes in America, so I am going after them with my criticism.
I never denied that certain factors increase the likelihood of crime. My main point is that these factors have nothing to do with white racism. Maybe they did a long time ago, but in present-day America, this is simply not the case. Therefore, going after white racism to attempt to fix the problem is not going to help anyone. In fact it's making everything much worse.
Quote:
And I'm pretty sure black men aren't the only ones going to prison, then regretting where their lives went wrong.
I never said they were the only ones. My point was to show YOU and others that even they take responsibility for their own decisions in life, whereas white people like to take that away from them by blaming their actions as an individual on white people as a whole.
Quote:
And trust me, if people only had children when they could only afford them, then most of us wouldn't exist, as the great majority of us had had forebears who hadn't the means to care for children, but had them anyway. To dismissively say, "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em," is just hard hearted. And no, I don't consider it hardhearted to have the Goddamn tax payers spend a sliver of their income on children who might otherwise face malnutrition, homelessness, and lack of medical care.
How hard is it to use a condom? It is stupid to have children you know you can't provide for and won't be taking care of. I'd even go as far as to say it's immoral. Why would someone have five children that they know will have a poor life? That's hard-hearted. And by poor life, I'm not referring to poverty. I'm referring to parents who don't even attempt to raise their children properly. Those children are better off not being born, because they are likely going to have a very unhappy life. That's just a fact, and the parents could prevent this disaster by simply using birth control. So don't call me cold for simply believing that parents should be responsible.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
09 Oct 2016, 7:49 am
kraftiekortie wrote:
I really wish some black person, or somebody of a different race than "white," can come to this thread, and give his/her perspective. That would be really interesting.
Come on man, you're better than that. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but you really need to erase this kind of thinking. Especially when you don't even know the races of the people in the thread. Someone could even say they were black and you still wouldn't truly know if they were. Just judge the posts on their content, regardless of what skin the poster is wearing.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,839
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
09 Oct 2016, 10:19 am
L_Holmes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
AspE wrote:
L_Holmes wrote:
Well now you know that this is not my intent, so I'd appreciate it very much if you stopped insinuating that I believe crazy things which I never said, like that all blacks have genetic criminality.
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
The crime is due in high part to the disintegration of black families, which leads to a vicious cycle of poverty, instability and, for many young black men especially, crime, and ultimately death or worse. It is not racist cops, it's black parents who don't take care of their children.
I'm not saying all black parents are like this, and the ones I'm talking about are in many ways a product of the crap they were born into. But the cycle has to end somewhere, and it starts with black people taking responsibility for the well-being of their own community.
Way too many black children have no positive role models in their life, because their father is out committing crime or in prison himself, and the mother is simply unable to provide for or even control her kids. Many of these people should not be having children in the first place, but they do, and this is what happens.
I recently watched a documentary about a Chicago school for these kinds of children (which by the way has been defunded, so all these kids are out on the street now). This 14 year old boy had no father (in prison for life for murder), basically no mother either (she looked like she was probably on drugs constantly). His little sister was beaten to death. As a result, he got in fights constantly, didn't care about school, was smoking weed all the time, and was on basically the same path as his father. Do you think any amount of reparations or police reform can fix a situation like that?
You see the surface symptoms, but you fail to connect it to our outrageously horrible history of racism and mistreatment which continues (albeit to a somewhat lesser degree of obviousness) to this day. How about you take responsibility for the problems of your country?
"Surface symptoms"? No, I just gave you the core of the problem. What, do you think these families are falling apart because white police come in and separate them?
No, they are choosing to do it. They are choosing to have a bunch of kids they can't provide for, they are choosing to commit crimes. Do you think black people don't make their own decisions?
That young boy I was talking about, they took him to see his dad in prison. He hadn't seen him for eight years. When his dad saw him, he immediately started crying, and then they talked for a bit. When he asked his father why he got put in prison, his father laughed, and said, "Murder and attempted murder."
Then he gave his son some advice, something along the lines of, "You gotta do good out there. Don't end up in here."
Huh, that's strange. He didn't seem to blame white people. Maybe it's because he realized that it was his own decision to kill another human being that got him locked up, and not his skin color.
Maybe you should realize that to. You seem to think of black people as mindless, helpless animals. You act as though any time a black person does something wrong, it's always the fault of white racists.
So you don't think black people have a free will of their own then? Because free will entails being able to independently make good or bad moral decisions, and to be therefore responsible for them. So by holding white people responsible for everything black people are doing, you are implying that black people cannot act independently of white people.
I know you think you're doing good here by attacking me and calling me a racist, but you are not. You are the one being racist, and you are part of the problem, not the solution.
What are your proposed solutions, anyway? Seeing as I'm white, you're certainly not gonna give my ideas a chance. I'm guessing you just want reparations for all black people in America, right?
I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't blacks who do bad things, or that they have no free will, or that whites are responsible for all their problems.
Really? That's interesting, because not many people here, including you, seem to be at all okay with my assessment that black people are doing some pretty bad things independently of white people. That makes me racist apparently, so I can only assume that you people believe that it's all totally the fault of white people when a black guy murders another black guy, or doesn't take care of his kids. If that's not what you believe, then why would you take issue with what I'm saying?
Quote:
The point we're trying to make, at least in part, is
Let me guess: f**k white people?
Quote:
that many police officers make no distinction between blacks, but see them all as potential violent criminals, whether they are or not.
Yep, f**k white people. You're just making a broad generalization, and it is based on nothing other than your idea that white people are racist. Could you actually provide evidence for this claim?
Quote:
That, and many people in poor black neighborhoods face socio-economic problems that make crime more likely. The same circumstances had been faced in Italian, eastern European Jewish, and Irish Catholic inner city areas of the past, and many people there had also ended up in criminal enterprises that may not have always happened had the circumstances of low income and treatment as pariahs by other Americans not existed.
So what is your point exactly? This may come as a shock to you, but I am anti-criminal regardless of skin color. If we had a huge amount of crime coming from white people, I'd be criticizing white people. But as it happens, black people are committing the lion's share of crimes in America, so I am going after them with my criticism.
I never denied that certain factors increase the likelihood of crime. My main point is that these factors have nothing to do with white racism. Maybe they did a long time ago, but in present-day America, this is simply not the case. Therefore, going after white racism to attempt to fix the problem is not going to help anyone. In fact it's making everything much worse.
Quote:
And I'm pretty sure black men aren't the only ones going to prison, then regretting where their lives went wrong.
I never said they were the only ones. My point was to show YOU and others that even they take responsibility for their own decisions in life, whereas white people like to take that away from them by blaming their actions as an individual on white people as a whole.
Quote:
And trust me, if people only had children when they could only afford them, then most of us wouldn't exist, as the great majority of us had had forebears who hadn't the means to care for children, but had them anyway. To dismissively say, "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em," is just hard hearted. And no, I don't consider it hardhearted to have the Goddamn tax payers spend a sliver of their income on children who might otherwise face malnutrition, homelessness, and lack of medical care.
How hard is it to use a condom? It is stupid to have children you know you can't provide for and won't be taking care of. I'd even go as far as to say it's immoral. Why would someone have five children that they know will have a poor life? That's hard-hearted. And by poor life, I'm not referring to poverty. I'm referring to parents who don't even attempt to raise their children properly. Those children are better off not being born, because they are likely going to have a very unhappy life. That's just a fact, and the parents could prevent this disaster by simply using birth control. So don't call me cold for simply believing that parents should be responsible.
I hardly know why any of us try to argue with you, as if you can be helped to recognize the error of you ideas.
Incidentally, I never said F..k white people. The fact that you accuse me of that says something about you more than it does about me.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
11 Oct 2016, 1:57 am
Kraichgauer wrote:
I hardly know why any of us try to argue with you, as if you can be helped to recognize the error of you ideas.
You have yet to point out any error. The only thing you have pointed out, over and over, is the fact that I'm white, and your belief that white cops are racist, and that I'm racist. You have not provided anything in the way of evidence to support your claims.
Ironically, your response here is something I could easily be saying to you. I have pointed out your bias and the lack of data supporting your claims, as well as your attacks on my race. None of these criticisms have you addressed honestly, aside from a somewhat half-assed apology for insinuating my place of residence was somehow indicative of my racism.
Quote:
Incidentally, I never said F..k white people. The fact that you accuse me of that says something about you more than it does about me.
Nice deflection. No, you're not literally saying the phrase "f**k white people", but it is the underlying point you are making. Even though we are talking about black crime and police violence, you keep bringing the conversation back to racist whites. If you had evidence for your claim that black crime and police violence towards blacks is largely because of white racism, then I would believe you, but I have not seen this evidence, and all I'm getting from you are unfounded assertions.
Therefore, I can only assume that your goal is not to present an honest argument, but to smear white people with unfounded accusations of racism. Why else would you need to bring up the history of racism in Missouri? That's completely irrelevant to this discussion, unless your goal is just to say f**k white people.
_________________
"It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely the most important."
- Sherlock Holmes
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,839
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
11 Oct 2016, 2:04 am
L_Holmes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I hardly know why any of us try to argue with you, as if you can be helped to recognize the error of you ideas.
You have yet to point out any error. The only thing you have pointed out, over and over, is the fact that I'm white, and your belief that white cops are racist, and that I'm racist. You have not provided anything in the way of evidence to support your claims.
Ironically, your response here is something I could easily be saying to you. I have pointed out your bias and the lack of data supporting your claims, as well as your attacks on my race. None of these criticisms have you addressed honestly, aside from a somewhat half-assed apology for insinuating my place of residence was somehow indicative of my racism.
Quote:
Incidentally, I never said F..k white people. The fact that you accuse me of that says something about you more than it does about me.
Nice deflection. No, you're not literally saying the phrase "f**k white people", but it is the underlying point you are making. Even though we are talking about black crime and police violence, you keep bringing the conversation back to racist whites. If you had evidence for your claim that black crime and police violence towards blacks is largely because of white racism, then I would believe you, but I have not seen this evidence, and all I'm getting from you are unfounded assertions.
Therefore, I can only assume that your goal is not to present an honest argument, but to smear white people with unfounded accusations of racism. Why else would you need to bring up the history of racism in Missouri? That's completely irrelevant to this discussion, unless your goal is just to say f**k white people.
Whatever. I'm tired, don't feel good, and need to go to bed, so I'll let you argue it out yourself.
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
12 Oct 2016, 5:48 am
B19 wrote:
Shouldn't the title of your thread be more accurately, "My preferred facts about racism"? They are your opinions, aren't they, not a set of objectively valid facts?
Which of his suggested facts do you disagree with and on what basis?
What evidence can you provide to demonstrate that these are his "preferred facts"? Evidently he has objections to many of the items he presented as facts, so your pedantic criticism of the thread title can hardly be considered constructive.
12 Oct 2016, 12:05 pm
LoveNotHate wrote:
You're trying to be PC, however, I'm confident that if we castrated all men, then violent crime statistics would plunge.
This is why we castrate male dogs and cows.
Violence seem strongly correlated to testosterone.
Thus, testosterone seems to be the culprit.
This is why we castrate male dogs and cows.
Violence seem strongly correlated to testosterone.
Thus, testosterone seems to be the culprit.
This is intensely untrue. Testosterone decreases risk-aversion, and actually makes you calmer (among other effects). In order for aggression to increase, the testosterone needs to be converted into estrogen via the enzyme aromatase.
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I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.
12 Oct 2016, 1:03 pm
Wolfram87 wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
You're trying to be PC, however, I'm confident that if we castrated all men, then violent crime statistics would plunge.
This is why we castrate male dogs and cows.
Violence seem strongly correlated to testosterone.
Thus, testosterone seems to be the culprit.
This is why we castrate male dogs and cows.
Violence seem strongly correlated to testosterone.
Thus, testosterone seems to be the culprit.
This is intensely untrue. Testosterone decreases risk-aversion, and actually makes you calmer (among other effects). In order for aggression to increase, the testosterone needs to be converted into estrogen via the enzyme aromatase.
Why do we neuter male pets?
"neutering your pet often reduces undesirable behaviors caused by a higher level of testosterone"
http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/general-p ... r-your-pet
"Testosterone tends to lower thresholds for aggression (making aggression more likely). It can also make aggression more intense and longer lasting".
"many dogs behave less aggressively once testosterone levels drop after castration".
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/neuteringmaledogs
12 Oct 2016, 1:17 pm
Primarily because you don't want them to procreate, or have deal with mating behaviours (such as territory marking). Also note that you also spay female pets.
And also less aggression. When there's less testosterone to convert into estrogen, there will be less estrogen to cause aggression. What you're suggesting is akin to saying having lots of wood around causes fires.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/20/us/do ... wanted=all
http://www.medicaldaily.com/estrogen-fe ... men-318954
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I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.
13 Oct 2016, 5:56 am
Wolfram87 wrote:
Primarily because you don't want them to procreate, or have deal with mating behaviours (such as territory marking). Also note that you also spay female pets.
And also less aggression. When there's less testosterone to convert into estrogen, there will be less estrogen to cause aggression. What you're suggesting is akin to saying having lots of wood around causes fires.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/20/us/do ... wanted=all
http://www.medicaldaily.com/estrogen-fe ... men-318954
And also less aggression. When there's less testosterone to convert into estrogen, there will be less estrogen to cause aggression. What you're suggesting is akin to saying having lots of wood around causes fires.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/06/20/us/do ... wanted=all
http://www.medicaldaily.com/estrogen-fe ... men-318954
You're forming your opinion based on a survey in 1995, and "research" into "tail rattling" of maternal mice.
Since you're into science studies ...
"Most studies support a link between adult criminality and testosterone"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone
Closer to the topic, look at the real world, "gangs" are a reflection of "male territoriality".
Which is why we neuter male pets so they stop that behavior.
