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thegodofhats
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24 May 2007, 9:12 am

I'm a sort of aetheist/agnostic sort of person, but I'm really into the logic people have when deciding that a faith/religion is "true" and someone I know asked me this the other day and I've been wondering what people who believe will answer.

If God can do anything can he make a rock that even he can't move?



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24 May 2007, 11:42 am

Maybe he did already. Maybe he can't stop the big ol cosmos even if he wanted to. Maybe he can do marvolous things, but once done can't undo them. In other words, maybe we're all a big mistake.

God is a, maybe and one I don't think the pitiful human brain can even begin to fathom. Anybody that says other to me, is just shouting out their own pitiful ego. God is a man made concept. Not a God made concept. He would have done a better job of it, if he/she/it had done it.


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24 May 2007, 11:55 am

God is more likely to exists at the end of evolution than the beginning of all "creation". And its unlikely if the universe does start again after the end if any knowledge from one
iteration of the universe can be passed to the next.

So at most God is a bulldozer that can move any rock that it moved ounce again assuming no laws of physic are violated and it was not moved in a location that the bulldozer is unable to move it from.



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24 May 2007, 12:55 pm

This is like saying that since God is all-powerful, then He can be not all-powerful. Obviously, this is absurd. As a rabbi put it, "G-d is Perfection--and to ask if Perfection can make itself anything less than perfect simply makes no sense." You proceed from a false assumption: That if God is all-powerful, then he can do anything, even nonsensial things. Which simply isn't the case. God obviously cannot do illogical things. And the Bible itself lists things God cannot do, such as deny Himself.

To put it in a logical framework: A rock would have to be infinitely large to defeat an infinite amount of lifting power. But an infinite rock is a contradiction, since material objects cannot be infinite. Only God is infinite - there cannot be two infinites. So the question is actually asking if God can make a contradiction - which of course He cannot.


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ahayes
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24 May 2007, 7:07 pm

thegodofhats wrote:
If God can do anything can he make a rock that even he can't move?


Yes, and then he could subsequently move it.



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24 May 2007, 7:11 pm

thegodofhats wrote:
I'm a sort of aetheist/agnostic sort of person, but I'm really into the logic people have when deciding that a faith/religion is "true" and someone I know asked me this the other day and I've been wondering what people who believe will answer.

If God can do anything can he make a rock that even he can't move?
Finding contradictions, logical fallacies and other problems with god doesn't take a rocket scientist. I've been an atheist since I was 9 and never looked back religion is a crock.



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24 May 2007, 11:51 pm

JonnyBGoode wrote:
This is like saying that since God is all-powerful, then He can be not all-powerful. Obviously, this is absurd. As a rabbi put it, "G-d is Perfection--and to ask if Perfection can make itself anything less than perfect simply makes no sense." You proceed from a false assumption: That if God is all-powerful, then he can do anything, even nonsensial things. Which simply isn't the case. God obviously cannot do illogical things. And the Bible itself lists things God cannot do, such as deny Himself.

To put it in a logical framework: A rock would have to be infinitely large to defeat an infinite amount of lifting power. But an infinite rock is a contradiction, since material objects cannot be infinite. Only God is infinite - there cannot be two infinites. So the question is actually asking if God can make a contradiction - which of course He cannot.


I notice you refer to G-d as a 'he'. I was just wondering, could God make himself a she?

Merle



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25 May 2007, 12:01 am

God is the one who holds the mirror up to you and asks "what do you see?"

This might have something to do with the idea of judgement day, or when we see our lives reflected back at us at the moment of death, or near-death so far as we can tell. The experiences from people who have had NDE's indicate to me that God is a mirror, or the hand that hold it - we see all the things around us we didn't know or acknowledge was there and then decide what to do with this extra knowleege. Come back for another round? Who knows,...haven't had too many NDE's myself.



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25 May 2007, 1:18 am

sinsboldly wrote:
I notice you refer to G-d as a 'he'. I was just wondering, could God make himself a she?

Merle
Why would god limit itself to a form at all? Who said god needs a body? If I was a supernatural entity I wouldn't want to be an old man or a woman or anything really.



666
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25 May 2007, 4:52 am

JonnyBGoode wrote:
God obviously cannot do illogical things.

Illogical things like sending his necromancer son to Earth to save the world from the curse he himself put on humanity after a talking snake convinced a walking ribwich to eat fruit from a magic tree?



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25 May 2007, 5:00 am

ahayes wrote:
thegodofhats wrote:
If God can do anything can he make a rock that even he can't move?


Yes, and then he could subsequently move it.

But then he hadn't made a rock that he couldn't move, because he could move it.



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25 May 2007, 8:36 am

Well, the question implies God meaning to work against Himself, which God would not, and by His nature could not, do.
He's omniscient, not stupid. So, God can't do the above because of His innate inability to be that stupid.
Hope that answers your question.

What I want to know is, if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

And: Where does a circle begin?

Also: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

And, finally: How many evolutionists does it take to change a lightbulb?
(Okay, I'll give this answer: None. It'll happen by itself.)


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thegodofhats
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25 May 2007, 10:18 am

JonnyBGoode wrote:
To put it in a logical framework: A rock would have to be infinitely large to defeat an infinite amount of lifting power. But an infinite rock is a contradiction, since material objects cannot be infinite. Only God is infinite - there cannot be two infinites. So the question is actually asking if God can make a contradiction - which of course He cannot.


There are alternate universe theories so there's probably multiple infinity theories too.

Ragtime wrote:
What I want to know is, if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

And: Where does a circle begin?

Also: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

And, finally: How many evolutionists does it take to change a lightbulb?
(Okay, I'll give this answer: None. It'll happen by itself.)


No the tree doesn't make a sound, sounds are only waves until something(or someone) is around to interpret it.

A circle begins at the beggining, obviously.

Angels don't exist (not biblical ones, people who people call angels exist, but they can't dance on the head of a pin)

How many creationists does it take to skrew in a lightbulb? What's the difference? They just pray until an evolutionist comes along and changes it for them.



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25 May 2007, 1:34 pm

technical error in post...sorry


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Last edited by Ragtime on 25 May 2007, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 May 2007, 1:35 pm

Ragtime wrote:
thegodofhats wrote:
A circle begins at the beggining, obviously.


That's two counts of circular reasoning.

thegodofhats wrote:
How many creationists does it take to skrew in a lightbulb?


One. He realizes God gave mankind the ability to invent lightbulbs, since He knew they wouldn't invent themselves, and also to change them, since He knew they wouldn't change themselves. The Christian creationist then thanks God, goes to a drawer or cabinet, removes a lightbulb from its box, prays it isn't a dud, unscrews the old one, and screws in the new one. I'm sorry you didn't know that. :cry: It was such a simple question, too.


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25 May 2007, 9:39 pm

thegodofhats wrote:
A circle begins at the beggining, obviously.


Ragtime wrote:
That's two counts of circular reasoning.


:lol: LOL :lol:

now, THAT'S funny!


Merle