The U.S. conservative movement's authoritarian plans

Page 5 of 7 [ 102 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 8:34 am

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-has-big-pl ... _test=0_00


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 9:05 am

Dox47 wrote:

Dismantling the left would be fantastic for the country.


Do you advocate interment camps? Or, how would you go about physically dismantling "the left?"


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,359
Location: Outter Quadrant

21 Nov 2023, 9:59 am

Gawd help US .


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 10:24 am

Some people are attracted to authoritarianism. We've come close before



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QExM4GdtXDI

Father Coughlin was the big promoter of fascism with his radio show

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... e-coughlin

Now, we have the Fox Noise Machine twisting minds with fascist propaganda.

The fascists' main talking points now are that inflation is too high (it has come down substantially, and they never offer any solutions) and that we're being overrun by people from "shit-hole countries."


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 10:41 am



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W_U4ZqQH3Q


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

21 Nov 2023, 11:15 am

Readydaer wrote:

and some reactionary idiots think its mistakes apply to all of trans care. the right looooooves to reduce things to black or white, good or evil


What does any of that have to do with what I said? Also, the right hardly has a monopoly on black and white thinking, I'm not even sure that they dominate the market in it these days.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 12:24 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Maybe try engaging honestly with what I actually write? Trying to tar me like that isn't going to work well when there's a written record of what I actually said for everyone to see, you're just going to reveal your own dishonesty.


You did write

Dox47 wrote:
Dismantling the left would be fantastic for the country.


I wasn't being dishonest at all. How do you wish to go about "dismantling the left?"


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

21 Nov 2023, 1:13 pm

Honey69 wrote:

You did write

Dox47 wrote:
Dismantling the left would be fantastic for the country.


How do you get to concentration camps from there?

Honey69 wrote:

I wasn't being dishonest at all. How do you wish to go about "dismantling the left?"


Yes, you are, by reading an extreme meaning into an anodyne comment. I'd dismantle the left through massive cuts to bureaucracy and administration, a purge of the civil services, stronger restrictions on private/public cooperation on things like censorship and media, along with some tweaks to civil rights law as it applies to private businesses, among other things. Less exciting than the way the left conducts purges, but I'm not a savage.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Readydaer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Dec 2022
Gender: Female
Posts: 864
Location: Gensokyo

21 Nov 2023, 1:23 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I'd dismantle the left through massive cuts to bureaucracy and administration


can I ask you to elaborate? do you mean a smaller government with less power? America already tried that in the beginning and it didn't go well. Then again the country and the world have changed a lot, maybe that would work, I don't know.


_________________
My god. jelly donuts are so scary.


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 3:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Yes, you are, by reading an extreme meaning into an anodyne comment.



Your comment was hardly anodyne.

Dox47 wrote:
I'd dismantle the left through massive cuts to bureaucracy and administration, a purge of the civil services, stronger restrictions on private/public cooperation on things like censorship and media, along with some tweaks to civil rights law as it applies to private businesses, among other things. Less exciting than the way the left conducts purges, but I'm not a savage.


Seems rather extreme. You're an anarchist, and anarchists typically deploy violence and terrorism.

https://www.csis.org/blogs/examining-ex ... anarchists

Quote:

Anarchists in the United States promote an alternative societal structure—one opposed to the existence of the U.S. government....militant anarchists will remain an enduring but relatively low threat to the United States in relation to other extremist movements. ...

...Despite the mass arrests and deportations, U.S. anarchists continued to advocate for social issues as well as socialist and communist causes. Following the wave of social change in the 1960s, the Weather Underground Organization, an anarcho-communist group, conducted a campaign of 25 bombings in order to protest the Vietnam War, racism, and the “empire” of the United States. Militant anarchists reemerged at the “Battle for Seattle” during the 1999 World Trade Organization Ministerial Conference held in Seattle, Washington, when protesters assaulted officers and caused millions of dollars in property damage in opposition to labor rights, sustainable economies, and human rights abuses from globalization...

...At the core of anarchism is the belief in an individual’s uninhibited freedom. Anarchists view any social relationship with a power dynamic that is enforced by threats as inherently restrictive, and they therefore oppose government in any form. Anarchists strive to achieve a society based on self-determination and mutual aid in which individuals can live out their freedom to the extent that it does not interfere with the freedom of others....

...According to data compiled by the CSIS Transnational Threats Project, which tracks terrorist attacks and plots in the United States from January 1994 to January 2021, anarchists have conducted 30 of the total 980 identified attacks and plots. ...


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

21 Nov 2023, 4:17 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I'd dismantle the left through massive cuts to bureaucracy and administration, a purge of the civil services, stronger restrictions on private/public cooperation on things like censorship and media, along with some tweaks to civil rights law as it applies to private businesses, among other things. Less exciting than the way the left conducts purges, but I'm not a savage.


And replace it with what? More profiteering layers of corporate greed facilitated by American oligarchs?

Prime example: Healthcare. The USA is about the only developed country without government administered universal healthcare, and as a result, the industry has multiple layers of profiteers skimming everyone's money for no additional value resulting in the most expensive healthcare costs per capita.

Adding some government administration & oversight would grow government, but deliver services to people for a fraction of the cost - as has been proven by many countries all over the world.

So ridiculous that people are afraid of a larger government work force when it would actually benefit their personal bottom line to have it instead of the greedy people fleecing them instead.


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,271
Location: Llareggub

21 Nov 2023, 8:06 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

And replace it with what? More profiteering layers of corporate greed facilitated by American oligarchs?



https://www.thecollector.com/is-anarchism-a-bad-idea/

Quote:

...Anarchism comes in many forms, some more individualistic, others more communal. Some anarchists advocate strong property rights, others push for their abolition. What all forms of anarchism have in common, however, is their rejection of the state....

...Despite their differences, anarchists all converge on one belief: the state as we know it is illegitimate and unjustified. As a consequence, we ought to abolish the state. The reasons for this belief are varied. Anarchists such as Peter Kropotkin argue that the state exacerbates economic inequality, and lends legitimacy to unnatural hierarchies of domination. Anarcho-capitalists such as Murray Rothbard and David Friedman argue the state violates people’s property rights.

All anarchists, however, hold that the state violates people’s freedom. State institutions, by their very nature, restrict our freedom by imposing obligations to obey the law (and coercing and punishing those who do not comply). Anarchism as a social philosophy seeks to free people from both the political domination and economic exploitation of the state...

...The first major criticism of anarchism is that the stateless world anarchists describe is undesirable. Even critics who agree that the state, under current conditions, causes inequality and legitimizes domination, sometimes hold that the anarchist cure is worse than the disease: domination and inequality would be worse if there were no government.

Perhaps the best illustration of this argument can be found in Thomas Hobbes’ Leviathan. Written shortly after the English Civil War, Leviathan makes the case for the importance of absolute sovereignty as a means of avoiding the harm people experience in the state of nature. Life without government, Hobbes argues, would be “poor, nasty, solitary, brutish, and short.” In a world without government, there would be none of the benefits of civilization, and people would live in continual fear of robbery or violent death. In this state of nature, the strong rule over and subjugate the weak.

The desire to avoid this state of nature is what leads individuals to create governments in the first place. In the words of Ruth Kinna, “The prevailing view is that human beings want to escape from the inconvenience or violence of anarchy and, because they have the wit to do so […] they submit to government. Anarchy is the order they run away from. It implies chaos, sometimes vigilantism, sometimes mob rule, and it cannot guarantee peace or security.”

In Hobbes’ view, we can avoid anarchy through the creation of a social contract, in which individuals give up some of their freedoms to govern their lives to a sovereign in exchange for protection and the rule of law. Even if the state perpetuates inequality, it is nowhere near as bad as a state of anarchy...

...The critique that anarchists are utopians, however, isn’t limited to their view of human nature. Their blueprints for future societies are also seen as being unachievable...


...The third major critique of anarchist political philosophy is that anarchism is inherently unstable. We have already considered one of the versions of this critique above when considering Hobbes’s argument for the state. In Hobbes’s view, given that a state-less society would be poor, nasty, brutish, and short, even if we could abolish the state, individuals would quickly come together to re-establish one...

...Anarcho-capitalists and Agorists both argue that private enforcement and insurance companies could replace the justice functions the state plays. Instead of calling the police and taking our disputes to government courts, in a stateless society, individuals would have contracts with different private companies to insure them against the destruction or theft of their property and to enforce their rights against hostile others.

Agorists and anarcho-capitalists envision a lively market for enforcement, with a variety of private companies competing for clients by offering different rates and levels of service. The problem is the markets for protection and enforcement lend themselves to natural monopolization. That is, they are markets in which there are high barriers to entry and in which economies of scale are very powerful. In other words, the cost of protecting one individual or small group is high, but the cost of protecting an additional person is low. As a consequence, larger companies will continually outcompete smaller up-starts.

Over time, Nozick argues, we will end up in a situation in which there is only one company (or a small group of companies) that can provide these services. As a consequence, people will have very limited choice over who protects them. Although these companies may not be technically states, they will be de-facto states. The freedom that anarcho-capitalism promises thus turns out to be an illusion.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

22 Nov 2023, 12:37 am

Readydaer wrote:
can I ask you to elaborate? do you mean a smaller government with less power? America already tried that in the beginning and it didn't go well. Then again the country and the world have changed a lot, maybe that would work, I don't know.


What didn't go well?

To lay out just one benefits of a smaller and weaker federal government, it would turn down the temperature on elections if the winners didn't have a massive apparatus to enforce their will on the rest of the country and more
experimentation was allowed at the state level, instead of the current quest for dominance that occurs whenever one of the parties comes into power.

Plus, burning down federal law enforcement, the IC, and most of the justice system just needs to happen.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

22 Nov 2023, 12:53 am

goldfish21 wrote:
And replace it with what? More profiteering layers of corporate greed facilitated by American oligarchs?


Who says I have to replace it with anything?


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


goldfish21
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,612
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

22 Nov 2023, 2:36 am

Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
And replace it with what? More profiteering layers of corporate greed facilitated by American oligarchs?


Who says I have to replace it with anything?

Somehow I don’t think replacing expensive healthcare with no healthcare is going to be a good platform to run on if you had any intentions of getting elected.

Why would your solution, or lack of, be something people wanted?


_________________
No :heart: for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.


Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 65,890
Location: Over there

22 Nov 2023, 7:02 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Dox47 has been awarded a 6-month holiday from WP.


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.