Paganism is our native religion

Post Reply New Topic

Considering there are Hindu texts describing geological features in India that disappeared 30,000 years ago I'd say that its pretty damn pointless to try and guess how old Hinduism really is.

Also all this talk about indo-european influences and Aryans is just plain uneducated, Dna tests show that the so called Dravidian and Aryan races of India are one and the same and are more closely related to the Chinese than indo-european people. And despite some so called "theory's" there is no proof that the Aryans ever managed to successfully invade India in ancient history as All harrapan ruins show no sign of war. The closest thing to it was the much later Islamic invasion. The small percentage of Indians with indo-european blood are mostly descended from when the British ruled India.

Can I have some sources please???
You're claim about Aryans being closer to (chinese)mongoloids is 100% HOGWASH!
Indo-Aryans are racially and linguistically caucasian. Dravidians however, are NEITHER caucasian nor mongoloid in origin.
In fact, the Dravidians are considered to be a NEGROID people. It turns out that the first human settlers to south and southeast asia were negroid peoples who left africa and migrated into southern asia through the arabian pennisula. Dravidians are genetically closer to australian aboriginees than to chinese or indo-aryans.

i never said Aryans were closer to Chinese, i said the majority of Indians are. the majority of Indians are not related to indo-european or aboriginal regardless of how light or dark their skin is most Indians are of the same race genetic research has proven this.

The Aryan/Dravidian divide theory was first coined by white supremacists during Britain's rule of India. The only solid biological difference between the two groups is skin pigmentation, even the languages of Sanskrit and Dravidian are thought to have come from the same unknown route language. The Indian Aboriginals or negroites as they are sometimes called make up a very small percentage of India's population.

Actually that seal has yet to be determined to be Shiva. As far as I am aware, the Mohenjo-Daro seals remain undecipherable.

I think what Chaotica meant in general is polytheism.

We all are different people. But we all once had our OWN religions, and I wonder if there are some people who remains Pagan inspite of all. May be the topic wasn't named uncorrectly?

I meant:
If there are any people on the forum who live on their native land and worship theid native Gods?
Who learn and respect their history and honour those who perished for that?
Who refuses to mix all religions into one?
We all live on different continents and speak different languages. We all are different peple. But we all once had our OWN religions, and I wonder if there are some peiple who remains Pagan inspite of all. May be the topic wasn't named correctly?

And, by the way, Aryans came from Hyperborea and moved to the lands with warmer climate (India was among them), but the most of them setttled down in Scandinavia (not far from former homeland), some came closer to the southern shores of the Baltic sea. And if you learn carefully, there are some legends still in India, China and Mongolia about tall people with blond hair and blue eyes who stayed there for a while and left then again somewhere.

To digger1: Paganism is the religion of our ancestors, inspired by Nature. It numbers about 5500 years in Ukraine. Many of those people were wise grass healers and possessed great spiritual powers, which made the Christians think of them to be "demons", "witches" and burn them alive, like in time of "Holy Inquisition". I believe that wizards still live among us. They can understand the language of Nature and foresee many things. Soon we'll celebrate the 7517 year.

Well, no. R1a (the Indo European Y-chromosome) has some of its highest concentrations in India (nearly 50% of the male population), indicating a very large influx of genetic material from the Aryans. And Sanskrit is one of the best understood languages on earth, being among the first languages lumped into the Indo-European (Indo-Iranian sub family) family languages, as attested by several obvious cognates of basic (and highly stable) words. Dravidian, on the other hand, is its own language family. Patrilineally , if not in terms of overall genetics, the old view makes a great deal of sense given the evidence.

Cite your sources, cause right now you can color me skeptical.

On top of that, if you check here, you'll find a number of Sanskrit gods which derive their names from Indo-European ones.


I've heard that some analysis indicates that it is a mistake to think that the Mohenjo-daro seals are an actual fully formed writing system.

In a paper co-authored with N. Rajaram, Frawley points to recent articles in the British Journal Current Biology, that have major implications for India. Based on genetic tests, the articles note that a key mitochondria DNA of the Western Eurasian strain accounts for no more than 5.2 per cent in Indian populations, as against over 70 per cent in European countries like Germany. Simply put, this means that the supposed Aryan invasion is contradicted by genetics. This means that there was no ‘Aryan invasion,’ not even any significant ‘Aryan migration.’

Sri Aurobindo (1872-1950), a scholar of Latin and Greek as well as of Sanskrit, debunked this theory of the North-South racial divide in India. Sri Aurobindo did not subscribe to the theory that the languages of North and South India are unrelated. Sri Aurobindo’s study of the Tamil led him to discover that the original connection between the Sanskrit and Tamil languages was “far closer and more extensive than is usually supposed.” These languages are “two divergent families derived from one lost primitive tongue.” And, “My first study of Tamil words had brought me to what seemed a clue to the very origins and structure of the ancient Sanskrit tongue.” –See The Secret of the Veda, V 10, the Centenary Edition, p 36, 46. Sri Aurobindo also noted that a large part of the vocabulary of the South Indian languages (Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, Malayalam) is common with Sanskrit.

Recent DNA evidence further negates the Aryan invasion theory. Dr. Subhash Kak summarizes recent research as follows:
Advances in genetics have made it possible to trace ancient migrations. It is now generally accepted that modern man arose in Africa about 200,000 years ago and from there spread first into India and Southeast Asia by coastal migration that probably included some boat crossings. There are several estimates of the time when this spread into India took place. According to the geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer, settlements in India appear about 90,000 years ago. From India there were later northeastern and northwestern migrations into Eurasia and the Far East.
The new findings turn on its head the previous view of the origin of Indians. The earlier view, popular in Indian history books, was that the Indian population came in two waves from the northwest around four or five thousand years ago, displacing the earlier aboriginals, descendents of regional archaic groups. . .
The new view is that subsequent to the rise of modern mankind in Africa, it found a second home in India, which is the point of migration for the populations of Europe, North Africa, China and Japan. The migrants in India slowly adapted to the wide climatic conditions in the sub-continent (from the tropical to the extreme
3
cold of the Himalayan region) leading to the rise of the Caucasoid and the Mongoloid races. . .
When the theory of the Aryan invasions into India is replaced by an “Out of India” viewpoint, one can readily explain regularities in languages that are spread widely. Linguists see connections between India and languages that extend to distant lands. Dr. Kak’s full article may be viewed at: http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=306006 .

An invasion of India from the outside around 1,500 B. C. did not occur. Recent scholarship does not deny that the people in India had relations with other Indo-European people in Asia and Europe. There was a belt stretching from India to the Mediterranean inhabited by a people who spoke related languages, known as the Indo-European languages. Sanskrit is the oldest known language in this family and may appropriately be called as the Mother of Indo-European languages. English is an Indo-European language.
Those who seek to foster the unity of India need to emphasize its unity, not its division. In the great cultural and religious history of India, important contributions have come forth from every region in the nation. The vast Ganga-Jamuna plain in the North of India is indeed the ancient heartland of Hinduism. This is the seat of Ayodhya (Bihar), Mathura and Vrindavan (UP), Kurukshetra (Haryana), and Indraprasatha (Delhi). The Great Mahabharata war was fought in the northern plains.
The 8th to the 13th century revival in Hinduism originated in the South. Sankaracharya from Kerala laid the foundation of modern day Hinduism. Sankara traveled to many parts of India and established centers of teaching and learning in various parts of the country. Sankara wrote extensive commentaries on Brahma Sutras, Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita, which are standard texts for Hindus. Ramanuja fromTamilnad and Madhava from Karnataka initiated the Bhakti movement, which spread to many parts of the country, both North and South. Chaitanya Mahaprabhu from Bengal, Mirabai from Rajasthan, Tulsidas from U.P, Guru Nanak from Punjab, Jnaneshwar from Maharashtra, Jaideva (author of Gita Govinda) from Orissa, have all contributed to Hindu religion.
The four Hindu holy places and pilgrimage sites (Tirathas and Dhams) at Badri Nath, Rameshwaram, Puri, and Dwarka are located in four corners of India: north, south, east and west. Every pious Hindu aspires to visit the four Dhams in one’s lifetime.
Some people equate Sanskrit with Hindi language and the Devanagri script. According to Swami Dayananda Saraswati, founder of Arsha Vidya Gurukulum in Pennsylvania and a Sanskrit scholar, Sanskrit language originally did not have its own script. It was written in a variety of local scripts. The writing of Sanskrit in the Devanagri script is a later development in history.
4
An Aryan invasion of India from the outside around 1,500 B. C. did not occur. People of North and South India have lived together in peace as two branches of one family since antiquity. People who talk of an Aryan conquest of India parrot the 19th century British viewpoint and do disservice to the cause of unity of India. THE MYTH OF ARYAN INVASIONS OF INDIA Dr. MADAN LAL GOEL UNIVERSITY OF WEST FLORIDA

India was the first place to be inhabitated by modern humans after Africa, the "Aryan" and "Dravidian" "races" of India are two slightly different branches of the same race, the differences being adaptation to their respective climates. Many language experts agree that Dravidian and Sanskrit are related and probably come from a route source.

I've heard that some analysis indicates that it is a mistake to think that the Mohenjo-daro seals are an actual fully formed writing system.

That's why I said, one shouldn't regress to a form of religion that is more primitive than other, much more advanced spiritual practices available to us. It would be very interesting to know more about the religion practiced in these (European) regions around 800 and I am especially interested in its connections to primitive hinduism (that of the Rg Veda) but it is not something that would fit our modern way of thinking about the world and the universe.

I don't see how the monotheism of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, or Samaritanism better accomodates our knowledge of the universe than Greek polytheism or Norse mythology would. It's all fiction no matter how you slice it.

words

People who talk of an Aryan conquest of India parrot the 19th century British viewpoint and do disservice to the cause of unity of India.