I hate religious people, why is that a problem?

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Redd
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22 Jan 2010, 7:17 am

I agree with Sand. This is entertaining. by hating the religious your in many ways behaving like them in the sense that you judge another for not seeing the world as you do. I live in a part of the world where those who are not protestant christian are stigmatized. However I pity the religious, at least the ones in my area, because they are taught to believe in Christianity at such a young age that they believe it without even knowing why and there for are basically brainwashed. making the idea of believing anything else or even having to logically consider why they believe what they believe a very scary concept. I myself have experienced this first hand as I was raised in a closed minded religious family who I still choose to keep blissfully ignorant of my atheism so as not to invoke a lot of what we call "witnessing" here in the south. which of course is the act of obnoxiously telling someone that they must believe in God or face damnation.



Greshym_Shorkan
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22 Jan 2010, 9:25 am

Sand wrote:
Greshym_Shorkan wrote:
Sand wrote:
Greshym_Shorkan wrote:
Ishmael wrote:
I'm serious here. I'm honest enough with myself to know I hate the religious. I can't help it; the religious perspective is in stark contrast to my own. The... refusal to even argue on common grounds, the retreat into doctrine when challenged.

Now, some people see this as a character flaw on my part. Why? I'm not going to pretend to like them. Why should I? I'm being honest here, it's a fact of my life, so be it. I find no personal fault with it; after all, from a professional standard - I cannot abide their anti-scientific world views. I would not be straying to suggest they disgust me; no offense intended, I'm merely stating my feelings towards them. Now, I know the people this thread will attract... I also know the response they may make - so be it.
But, the fact that I hate them is not the point; the point is, as I said, why should that be a problem?

Even my family, agnostics and atheists, say I should not hate them. Why? If I were to try, I would be merely pretending, until I fail and can not pretend to "respect" them anymore. They are wrong! Why is it taboo to say that!? They are, by my considerations, idiots! Uneducated fools; moreso to the ones attending religious education facilities.
So, why is being honest on my views to them "wrong"? Unpleasant for these people, to hear my views, perhaps. But, it's my open, honest opinion, and if they can spout on about the "evils" of "non-belief", why can't I call them out for being contradictory, tear down offensive posters about non-belief. I mean, vehemently offensive posters.
Acknowledgements of distaste are one thing; bordering on encouraging violence against atheists and other religions posted on a wooden cross are another!

I have always had a problem with religious people; I have no qualms about voicing my concerns over them. So why do people encourage me to "respect" them, considering their own behaviours to other religions, or those without the need to cling to ancient comforts?

Why is that seen as being wrong?! Notice any contradictions? So why can't it just be viewed as a mutual given?


If you specifically hated extremists, I would be more sympathetic. The only people who'd think you're wrong for hating religious people are the ones who are religious, in which case, duh. If you study anthropology, religion seems to be a fundamental part of many societies, so you're making a big generalization about calling them all idiots. That's maybe where secular people say you go wrong too.


There are lots of things common to all societies that are idiotic.


That's your opinion. And you don't have to hate them for it. You could, but your overlooking the good in a hell of lot of people.


I don't hate anybody. I find you very entertaining.


I didn't mean you you, I meant one doesn't need to hate them for it.



miszt
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22 Jan 2010, 9:42 am

Ishmael wrote:
I'm serious here. I'm honest enough with myself to know I hate the religious. I can't help it; the religious perspective is in stark contrast to my own. The... refusal to even argue on common grounds, the retreat into doctrine when challenged.

Now, some people see this as a character flaw on my part. Why? I'm not going to pretend to like them. Why should I? I'm being honest here, it's a fact of my life, so be it. I find no personal fault with it; after all, from a professional standard - I cannot abide their anti-scientific world views. I would not be straying to suggest they disgust me; no offense intended, I'm merely stating my feelings towards them. Now, I know the people this thread will attract... I also know the response they may make - so be it.
But, the fact that I hate them is not the point; the point is, as I said, why should that be a problem?

Even my family, agnostics and atheists, say I should not hate them. Why? If I were to try, I would be merely pretending, until I fail and can not pretend to "respect" them anymore. They are wrong! Why is it taboo to say that!? They are, by my considerations, idiots! Uneducated fools; moreso to the ones attending religious education facilities.
So, why is being honest on my views to them "wrong"? Unpleasant for these people, to hear my views, perhaps. But, it's my open, honest opinion, and if they can spout on about the "evils" of "non-belief", why can't I call them out for being contradictory, tear down offensive posters about non-belief. I mean, vehemently offensive posters.
Acknowledgements of distaste are one thing; bordering on encouraging violence against atheists and other religions posted on a wooden cross are another!

I have always had a problem with religious people; I have no qualms about voicing my concerns over them. So why do people encourage me to "respect" them, considering their own behaviours to other religions, or those without the need to cling to ancient comforts?

Why is that seen as being wrong?! Notice any contradictions? So why can't it just be viewed as a mutual given?


Its a problem because you are falling into the same trap that Dogmatic Religous people fall into, the same thing that makes people twist spiritual ideas into their own agenda (ie into Religons), is what is making you hate them, ie you BELIEVE you are right (you cannot dogmaticly state that science is fact, it is not, it is a collection of theories which makes sense according to what we see in the world, and any scientist will tell you that!) you CAN change that, whether you want to or not depends on whether you can realize for yourself where your hate is realy coming from, ie fear.

You are also attaching a powerful negative emotion to a general population, which is Prejuidice, and not useful for anything except triggering more negative reactions in other people.



Redd
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22 Jan 2010, 10:48 am

Quote:
Its a problem because you are falling into the same trap that Dogmatic Religous people fall into, the same thing that makes people twist spiritual ideas into their own agenda (ie into Religons), is what is making you hate them, ie you BELIEVE you are right (you cannot dogmaticly state that science is fact, it is not, it is a collection of theories which makes sense according to what we see in the world, and any scientist will tell you that!) you CAN change that, whether you want to or not depends on whether you can realize for yourself where your hate is realy coming from, ie fear.

You are also attaching a powerful negative emotion to a general population, which is Prejuidice, and not useful for anything except triggering more negative reactions in other people.


My point exactly. If only I new how to explain things like that instead of having to use some anecdote as an example to illustrate what I mean.



TheChristianAsshole
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07 Aug 2010, 2:40 am

First of all it is easy to hate. It is hard to accept. As a Christian, I love Jesus, but I am not a huge fan of his supporters. My faith is what keeps me grounded, humble and thankful. I still have not found a church that makes me feel comfortable. As much as I love God and Christ, (please forgive me), I can't stand the people i have met at the different churches I have attended. They all come up to you, ask you your name, what you do for a living, marital status, HEY slow down. I just met you. Do you really want to know everything about me because you care, or because it gives you ammo at your next "bake -off".
The BIBLE warns us of false phophets. Most Christians tend to over-do the I care about you factor. GOD knows your heart, stay true. The human heart is wild.We can be loving, we can also be evil, human nature. At church, nobody drinks,smokes, curses, sins, or cut somone off on the highway. After church, the same prick is cutting you off in the church parking lot in order to get to the 7/11 to buy beer,smokes, lotto tickets in order to place his bet for the muther fu**ing Super Bowl. FRUSTRATING. Humans are not perfect. Jesus loves you and the rest of the A-holes unconditionally!! Talk about frustration. In the end, it's not about how humans look upon you, it's how our CREATOR see's you. Hang in there champ. Build a relationship with someone who will ALWAYS love you (JESUS) and will never turn his back on you. Find any person who could do this.....Nobody! Good luck, bro!!



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07 Aug 2010, 3:07 am

I know how you feel. I was bullied by so called "Christians" about my special intrests and because I basicaly had an invisable "kick me" sign. One boy in paticular was the most horrible and when I tried to tell his parents what he was doing they denied it. Also how could people be so mean and heartless to animals: the most innocent of God's creation. Why did they find it "cute" when I wanted to pray for my animals when I was worried about them? Why were they so mean to me when they clearly teach to be kind to others? For awhile I think I was an athiest but then I realised it is people's fault, not God's. God gave them free will because He loved them and they chose to act up and be punks. I also don't understand why I must go to church when my own body is supposedly a temple. My parents insist I dress up for church but I feel so fake doing so and feel I am doing it to apease my parents instead of God. I feel like I go to church simply to appease my parents. I feel so much closer to God when I am by myself in the woods or something, not surrounded by so many other people in an artifical place. I have to use all my stregenth to block out the noise, the people and other sensory bombardment that I can't focus at all on what the priest is saying. I feel I go to appease my parents.

I like what this dude has to say: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gworC0-oQbw&feature=channel[/youtube]


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07 Aug 2010, 11:57 am

ruveyn wrote:
To O.P.

If someone is religious in a private way, why should you bear him any ill will?

ruveyn



"The only part of the conduct of any one, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."

But...

"The liberty of the individual must be thus far limited; he must not make himself a nuisance to other people."

"The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good, in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it."

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant."

John Stuart Mill



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07 Aug 2010, 12:16 pm

I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


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iamnotaparakeet
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07 Aug 2010, 12:59 pm

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


Despair!! ! :twisted:



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07 Aug 2010, 8:05 pm

Ishmael wrote:
I'm serious here. I'm honest enough with myself to know I hate the religious. I can't help it; the religious perspective is in stark contrast to my own. The... refusal to even argue on common grounds, the retreat into doctrine when challenged.

Now, some people see this as a character flaw on my part. Why? I'm not going to pretend to like them. Why should I? I'm being honest here, it's a fact of my life, so be it. I find no personal fault with it; after all, from a professional standard - I cannot abide their anti-scientific world views. I would not be straying to suggest they disgust me; no offense intended, I'm merely stating my feelings towards them. Now, I know the people this thread will attract... I also know the response they may make - so be it.
But, the fact that I hate them is not the point; the point is, as I said, why should that be a problem?

Even my family, agnostics and atheists, say I should not hate them. Why? If I were to try, I would be merely pretending, until I fail and can not pretend to "respect" them anymore. They are wrong! Why is it taboo to say that!? They are, by my considerations, idiots! Uneducated fools; moreso to the ones attending religious education facilities.
So, why is being honest on my views to them "wrong"? Unpleasant for these people, to hear my views, perhaps. But, it's my open, honest opinion, and if they can spout on about the "evils" of "non-belief", why can't I call them out for being contradictory, tear down offensive posters about non-belief. I mean, vehemently offensive posters.
Acknowledgements of distaste are one thing; bordering on encouraging violence against atheists and other religions posted on a wooden cross are another!

I have always had a problem with religious people; I have no qualms about voicing my concerns over them. So why do people encourage me to "respect" them, considering their own behaviours to other religions, or those without the need to cling to ancient comforts?

Why is that seen as being wrong?! Notice any contradictions? So why can't it just be viewed as a mutual given?


What about religious people who are very quiet and private about their religion, don't try to lay a trip on others and are inspired by their religion to do human and charitable deeds? Do you hate them too? Would you be annoyed by the Amish folk? Assuming you are not stuck behind one of their horse and buggy vehicles that is.

ruveynj



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07 Aug 2010, 8:06 pm

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


Exposed to any of them or just some of them?

ruveyn



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08 Aug 2010, 12:35 am

hale_bopp wrote:
The problem is "hate" is a very strong word.

What if you liked everything else about a person? Would you still not be a friend to them?

Also it doesn't hurt to open your mind a little, I'm not religious and base my views on science and spiritual energy. Not saying you should, but the problem could be people see you as narrow minded.. just as bad as narrow minded Christians...

..My favourite Christian is Christian Bale ;)


Hate to me has always been the descriptive term for a state of mind that is intolerant and hostile.

When we say we hate something it is disharmonious and raises the anxiety levels, it sets off a natural defensive stance in those who experience it being said - particularly if one is included in some respect within the hated group be that the case. It is unfortunate that this is how it is but most human interactions are dominated by a far from cerebral set of motivations etc.

I myself have a deep respect for the spiritual/inquiring mind but am uncomfortable as hell with most of what I see as the fallout from organised 'religion' and the 'religious' minded, particularly the judeo/christian root faiths. There seems to be so much intolerance and prejudice born of monotheism and the surrender to an effectively feudal social organism.

For me one thing about taking an inquiring/philosophical approach to life is that it should bring some sense of peace and consolation to the uneasy ego, this in part is about taming the non-cerebral responses through understanding.If it is a social dynamic it should increase the peace, bring harmony, surely?

Surrender to a doctrine is to tie oneself to a mast that is keeled in the past, it is fixed its evolution slowed. It is an assumption of total understanding and to my mind somewhat foolish. This does nothing to deny however the useful truths on which the popularity of these 'faiths' is based, I just feel that they may have been the best thing going in another time and place but have in many respects ceased to be the best approach available now, everything is evolving.

just some thoughts, peace j


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08 Aug 2010, 1:28 am

KaiG wrote:
I don't hate them, I just despair whenever I'm exposed to them.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB7o8x0wPhs&feature=related[/youtube]



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08 Aug 2010, 3:34 pm

I honestly don't really hate religions or religous people. Even though I poke fun at Christains for things like killing and torturing Pagens or anyone that didn't follow their beliefs, ruining the culture of the Native Americans and Africans and trying to wash their hands of it, and the fact that they still refuse to accept the fact that homosexuals are people too and that God didn't invent AIDS just to kill them all off. I still truely believe that everybody should have the right to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt anybody.

Religion with all its flaws, does do some good for people. It gives people a purpose and helps them to forget how meaningless life really is. Like all things in life, you just have to take religion with the good and the bad.



Oxybeles
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08 Aug 2010, 7:29 pm

Ghandi based the lion's share of his ideas off of the Jain faith. However, he mixed enough of his personal hatred and bias in with touches of Hinduism so that the local population had a much easier time following him than the restrictive teachings of Jainism.

Martin Luther King Jr. also based the grounds of his movement off of Jainism, not Christianity. He used many of the same tactics as Ghandi did earlier in the 20th century, but adapting it to the American sociopolitical situation rather than the Indian.

Personally, I find it hard to even contemplate "hate". OP's opinion stems from some deep-rooted hatred towards religion, but I simply can't understand this. When someone tells me that they are religious, I find my opinion of them dropping, but I can't say that I honestly have any emotional response to this. This is not meant to discount your emotional response in any way, but rather as a contrast of our similar viewpoints. Additionally, I don't wish to "piss anyone off" on the religious side, because I can honestly say I have no strong emotion either way, simply a philosophical and logical stance on why I disagree with you.

With that said, I cannot abide the company of most people who outwardly express their religious views in any way. This probably stems from a lot of reasons. My religious upbringing (Mormon), surrounded by a vast firewall of mind-crushingly illogical discussion, ignorance, and a close-mindedness towards any progressive thought, inquiries towards the basis or historical fact behind the founding of said religion, or general dissent in any way probably caused much of the souring. This escalated over the course of my teen years, as I began to explore the boundaries of the views that the people around me held, and I began to notice that almost nobody had any knowledge whatsoever about the founding of their particular church, the specifics of any other religion (even those encompassed under the same umbrella i.e. Catholic/Lutheran/Protestant), or any ancient religions that details of their own faith were based off of. This became very unsettling and I've found it to be true in nearly every religious discussion I've had over the course of my life. This further "turned me off" to those that consider themselves religious, as I have a very hard time understanding how someone can base so much of their lives and actions on something they don't understand. When discussing this very same point with these same religious folks, it ceaselessly leads them back to retreat into their dogma, and usually ends in a personal attack on my sources or character.

But I still can't figure out how or why to "hate" these people. OP, what bridges the gap between my complete lack of comprehension at this view of the world and your nearly dogmatic hatred of these same people? Furthermore, what stops the bridge between your hatred and the views of people like the Islamic Extremists like the Taliban and Al'Qaeda, Buddhist Extremists of Japan in WW2 fame, or Christian Extremists like the Army of God, Ku Klux Klan, or the thousands of other hate-grounded Christian groups currently operating in America?

TL;DR
I hold a similar stance on religion and those religious, but how do you go from "utter disbelief at their blindness and stupidity" to "hatred", and how does this make you any better than Extremist groups?



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08 Aug 2010, 9:46 pm

Hate of any kind just leads a person to anger and resentment; and these negative emotions may in turn lead to ulcers, headaches, heart problems, and other physical ailments. This isn't to say that if a person has a headache, he is covered in hate, anger, and resentment; but it does suggest that prolong hate, anger, and resentment may have serious health consequences. Just something to ponder.


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