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Ishmael
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01 Oct 2008, 12:26 pm

Seriously, why? I mean, I don't particularly like America - after all, the education system is a joke, an alarming number of the population are extremely religious, with a strong tendency to elect leaders of the same ilk, shocking minimum wage and poverty in a supposed developed nation, the anthem is essentially a giant f**k you to other nations and the U.S. Government has a history of trying to act as the worlds police - many US citizens have now noticed and are dissatisfied with that one. Not to mention that a predominantly White Christian government has too much sway in world events, each year the people of the nation have gotten stupider and fatter - not unnoticed by concerned Americans themselves, there is still a strong note of racism in the country, an insular culture, and an alarming power in the world Market despite being heavily in debt with an economy in it's death throes. After all, the U.S no longer has the resources to be a super power - those days are over. The U.S. economy has virtually nothing left but old money. It's a wealthy poor nation, yet to realize it's not the bastion of civilization it was one hundred years ago. I don't like the country - but I don't dislike it. So it's flawed. Big deal? Granted, America is a problem that needs to be solved in coming years - but, what nation hasn't had their problems? I know why many now spit on the ground when they hear the word America - but just because the flailing U.S has been in the spotlight for problems that can afflict any nation, why are they now despised for that by many?

Even so, American tourists who try to speak "aurstralian" should be shot on site. Still, not as bad as those bloody Europeans who think camping beside a river at night is safe...


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Eggman
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01 Oct 2008, 12:27 pm

you gotta hate something I guess.



Sand
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01 Oct 2008, 12:36 pm

Perhaps you should ask a few Iraqis, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans.



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01 Oct 2008, 12:44 pm

I don't hate America or its people. I just hate its corrupt federal reserve system.



TallyMan
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01 Oct 2008, 12:54 pm

I don't hate America, but over recent years my opinion has changed a lot. I used to think of the American military as a "benign world policeman" but that image is in tatters. I used to think of America as a bastion of scientific research, but they seem to be losing the plot there and more interested in dumbing down education. Religious fundamentalism, bigotry and hatred seems to be on the rise there. Every day there are news articles about American policeman beating or killing innocent Americans or the military bombing or shooting children in Afghanistan or Iraq. Many Europeans are now looking at America and basically wondering what happened? America seems like a backwards and belligerent place now, being left behind, a former super power in decline. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America and I have American friends, it just seems like the country is going off the rails. It has certainly ruined its image around the World and is no longer automatically trusted as having benign intentions.


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Ishmael
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01 Oct 2008, 12:56 pm

Sand wrote:
Perhaps you should ask a few Iraqis, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans.


Already covered that - America thinks it's the worlds police. Hell, the makers of south park noticed and made a movie about it! But should the rest of the world view the nation in it's entireity like that?


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Eggman
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01 Oct 2008, 1:06 pm

which america are we talking about?



Ishmael
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01 Oct 2008, 1:11 pm

TallyMan, the U.S. has definitely ruined it's world reputation. In the U.N., which America founded, other nations do not want much aid from the U.S. anymore - rather preferring Australians, Canadians or the U.K. over America.
That's getting taxing on the Australian military - peacekeeping globally and locally, assisting the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, not that the yank commanders use the SAS they've been lent properly - there's a popular book by an Australian SAS soldier from Afghanistan, talking about the U.S military blunders, application of Australian stereotype, and how he and his mate - whilst only military observers - had to save a squad of poorly trained, by Australian standards, U.S soldiers who panicked and dropped most of their equipment when attacked by the Taliban - which they wouldn't have been if they'd have used the SAS as offered, and listened to Australian intelligence. They do now; but the fact that it happened in the first place does not add to their international reputation.


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crackedpleasures
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01 Oct 2008, 1:29 pm

I dont hate America nor its citizens, but I do dislike the political entity that the USA is. The people cannot help it (?? who voted for those idiots in charge??) but the country to me is politically one of the most repulsive ones in the world, amongst the pleasant company of Saudi Arabia and Iran amongst others.

Reasons why I dislike the USA politically:
- the death penalty
- the social security is a total joke, maybe ask Cuba for advice as they have a good network for their citizens
- country turning into a religious totalitarian state step by step
- invading countries randomly where the US has nothing to search and where they have no rights to interfere with local business
- trying to constantly force its own values onto the rest of the world, not realising most other nations (including the European ones) are no longer having that American Dream. Most here in Europe see the States as a bit backward in some ways.
- corporate politics
- did I mention the death penalty already?
- Guantanamo Bay and several other serious violations of human rights
- not recognising the Tribunal of The Hague while meanwhile still demanding a leading role in UN and NATO (either you recognise the club entirely or you stay out if the club membership rules dont appeal... you cannot have both)



Other than that, the people seem very influential by the media, and most mass production on cultural level is of very low level (the average Hollywood movie and the idolisation of celebrity life as sad highlights). But those are not such a big issues.

I dont hate the USA nor its people. I only hate its politics. In a different way than the way in which I hate the politics of my own country. Maybe if the death penalty would be abolished (a very sensitive issue for me) I would be more forgiving for their other violations. Basically I think the USA fits in the same category as the likes of Iran: corrupt government with absolutely no respect for human life.


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Fnord
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01 Oct 2008, 1:36 pm

Ishmael wrote:
Why do people hate America?

Hypocritical Know-It-All attitude. American polity involves having THE only right answer to everyone else's problems, and indifference to its own sins.

Reciprocity. When America comes to the aid of a foreign country, the American government expects something in return, while the foreign country is looking for a no-strings-attached handout. Even worse, when America experiences a disaster, the best that it can expect is the diplomatic equivalent of a get-well card from all of the countries that America once helped.

Materialism. Americans are the greatest consumers of foreign goods and materials, while most of the rest of the world seems to get by with basic needs plus a few embellishments.

Freedom. American citizens are free to criticize their government without undue fear of reprisal. Citizens in places like China, Iran, Cuba, and many African and South American countries are 'disappeared' if their governments even suspect those citizens of subversive ideologies.


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Last edited by Fnord on 01 Oct 2008, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ishmael
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01 Oct 2008, 1:37 pm

Crackedpleasures, I think I'll just mention I support the death penalty - but somewhat more regulated than in the U.S. - after all, some people are absolute monsters and can't be rehabilitated at all.


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crackedpleasures
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01 Oct 2008, 1:39 pm

Ishmael wrote:
Crackedpleasures, I think I'll just mention I support the death penalty - but somewhat more regulated than in the U.S. - after all, some people are absolute monsters and can't be rehabilitated at all.


I am against the death penalty in all possible circumstances. Blow up an entire school, bomb an entire village, ... Still doesnt justify the death penalty IMO. I do agree some people are lost cases, that is what life WITHOUT PAROLE is for. With emphasisis on "without parole" in case of serial murder and similar harsh crimes.


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Ishmael
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01 Oct 2008, 2:03 pm

Problem is, life without parole is extremely expensive - and fruitless, by my personal view. Killing monsters is a good thing. But enough of that; off topic.


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01 Oct 2008, 2:46 pm

I feel this international animosity can be explained by simple human psychology, just on an a larger scale.

This is almost certainly and overly simplistic template. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with this, but this is how I see it.

America was the new, cool kid on the proverbial play ground. Ya' know, good looking, athletic, fair, and kind, because we did a good thing (WWII).

After that act on the world stage, we became the kid everyone wants to emulate. We took that status and used it to further our own interests. People got jealous. They began to lash out. We got defensive, and began to care less and less about whose toes we stepped on. People got even angrier. We began to bully, and lie in response. We met contempt and anger with contempt and anger. People saw how strong we had become, how dangerous, even how unpredictable, and certainly how arrogant, and got really frightened.

Fear = Hate.

We are beginning to fall, arguably in large part because of our own arrogance, and frankly individuals, and even collectively, whole countries, smell blood and are taking out that generational resentment, and kicking us while we are down.

The group is trying to make sure the bully will not rise to abuse again.

At this point in the game, the new 'cool thing' is to hate America and Americans. That doesn't make it right, or moral, but survival generally doesn't care about that on an individual basis.

I don't hate my country. We have made mistakes, most of which have nothing to do with me individually, but mistakes non-the-less. But other nations have made mistakes as well, and behaved in ways that weren't any better. They just got less attention over the decades because they weren't standing center stage, top of the heap, with the spotlight. I

It could even be argued that we had a responsibility in a smaller world i.e. better communication, a more globalized economy to behave in an exemplary manner. Which we certainly didn't always do.

At this point anything we do or say as individual Americans will be taken by someone somewhere, as an example of our arrogance, callousness, or just general nastiness. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.


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anna-banana
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01 Oct 2008, 2:49 pm

most Europeans who hate Americans hate them because of the way they behave i.e. they are not snobs:

they don't speak french
they don't speak spanish
they don't speak italian
they ask for "beer" like it actually meant something
they don't smoke
they don't have sex in public places
they are not blasé enough

blah blah blah I could go on like this forever...


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crackedpleasures
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01 Oct 2008, 3:02 pm

Life inprisonment costs less money than the average death penalty trial, but hey, there is a different topic on capital punishment so lets continue the debate there.

anna-banana wrote:
most Europeans who hate Americans hate them because of the way they behave i.e. they are not snobs:

they don't speak french
they don't speak spanish
they don't speak italian
they ask for "beer" like it actually meant something
they don't smoke
they don't have sex in public places
they are not blasé enough

blah blah blah I could go on like this forever...
\

I dont have sex in public places :? What is European about that?

Generally though, Americans are too conservative to me. That is why I like Canada a lot more, it seems so much more progressive and liberal.

Oh, one more thing I got against American politics: the law allowing private gun posession. This is just asking for problems and extremely insane to keep this law alive.


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Do what Thou wilt shal be the whole of the Law.
Love is the Law, Love under Will. And...
every man and every woman is a star
(excerpt from The Book of the Law - Aleister Crowley)

"Od lo avda tikvateinu" (excerpt from the Israeli hymn)