A new Revolution in America, how could it happen?
If they were getting better there'd be no need for a revolution.
When things get incrementally worse we should work on incrementally reversing the trend. So far there is no reason to have a revolution. We have legal means to change things. It is called voting. If the public is too stupid to do that, it will have to get incrementally smarter.
And things can be changed. We eliminated slavery in this country without a revolution. We had a civil war instead.
Women got the legal right to vote without a revolution
Civil rights were finally guaranteed to black folks without a revolution.
So incremental changes are possible, if not easy.
ruveyn
I think it will start after the 2012 election and it will be more of a race/class war than a revolution although overthrowing the government will be the end result. No matter if Obama is reelected or not the other side will feel like the election was rigged and that they have no options left. The rich and upper middle class aren't going to stand by while they are bled dry and all their wealth given to the poor. At the same time the poor and lower middle class will feel like their one chance at leveling the playing field was taken away from them if he isn't reelected. There are not enough police and military in this country to stop it if widespread rioting takes place. After Katrina it was only a few hours before rioting and looting broke out. Police and national guard units from around the country responded and took weeks to restore order. That was a small number of people and it still took weeks to stop it. How would a nationwide revolt look? Truly nightmare stuff.
No. There will not be a Revolution. The American people at this juncture are too risk aversive for that.
Back in 1776 only 1/3 of the adult male population was in favor a a revolution to achieve independence from England.
ruveyn
ruveyn
Sweetleaf
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I think religious communes should be set up where people can share money and property in common and practice a form of Communism. During hard economic times the fortunate can support the less fortunate. Unfortunately the Christian Right is violently opposed to the idea and wants everyone to be either a winner or a loser
John_Browning
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There's the Amish, there's the Mennonites, there's Mormon polygamists, there's a militant Muslim one somewhere in New York, there were a zillion new age hippie new age ones once upon a time that I don't know if they are still around, and there are a bunch of small cults as well. There's lots of communes to choose from, just make sure they are BATFE approved.
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Probably because people still had a sense of hope for the future. We hadn't been sold out into dept and the Nation had plenty of resources open to be utilized by the people or purchased at reasonable prices. For example the cost of a piece of farmland up until recently could generally be paid for within a few years of profits from working the land. Good luck with that now-a-days.
The system has become obviously corrupt to anyone with the mind power to use reason and logic to see past the opinions perpetuated by the media. The bigger question is why wouldn't people revolt and I think that is primarily for one of two reasons. 1st and most commonly they are ignorant and or brainwashed and 2nd because they are afraid of the consequences to themselves and collectively of our ability to survive in the wake of the chaos revolution is bound to cause.
Probably because people still had a sense of hope for the future. We hadn't been sold out into dept and the Nation had plenty of resources open to be utilized by the people or purchased at reasonable prices. For example the cost of a piece of farmland up until recently could generally be paid for within a few years of profits from working the land. Good luck with that now-a-days.
The system has become obviously corrupt to anyone with the mind power to use reason and logic to see past the opinions perpetuated by the media. The bigger question is why wouldn't people revolt and I think that is primarily for one of two reasons. 1st and most commonly they are ignorant and or brainwashed and 2nd because they are afraid of the consequences to themselves and collectively of our ability to survive in the wake of the chaos revolution is bound to cause.
Hitler saved the U.S. economy., He threatened Britain and he declared war on the U.S. on Dec 11, 1941. We went to war, we profited from it and we did not have a revolution.
ruveyn
Now that would stir the populace to rebellion!
Yeah, but first you'd have to make half of us put down the TV remote, and the other half to log off the Internet!
And put down our cheetos, and get two others to help get our lardasses up off the couch.
Stereotype, much? The opposite is true: many Americans WANT change. What has been proven by Occupy Wall Street is that one can only reform the system so far from below however, while from within, the government will only change so many of it's inner workings.
True reform, true change isn't possible as if the Occupy Movement got everything that it wanted, then it would require a total overhaul of the "system," I.E. free-market capitalism.
Karl Marx once addressed the issue of government reform in a critique of an article entitled "The King of Prussia and Social Reform" in 1844:
from: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/08/07.htm
In 2012, the same holds true in the U.S. Depending on which of the two main parties is running the show, each will blame the other for societal defects. The state, in a blind act of trying to protect itself, is incapable of realizing that it is the system that perpetuates militarism, war, poverty-in-a-land-of-plenty, etc.
It's why Obama was unable to offer "change" to voters. Even if he was sincere and wanted to offer real change, he soon found out when in office that when working within the narrow confines of the system, certain "socialist" policies of his could only go so far.
When this famous statement was penned in the Declaration of Independence, many inside the government and in the colonies figured that just be freeing themselves from the British crown, they could usher in a wave of equality.
The opposite proved to be true. By the late 1700's/early 1800's, a form of "true capitalism" was practiced, with zero intervention from the government. Mill workers, most of them female, spearheaded reforms to the system from below to allow the right to form trade unions. Companies considered trade unions as"conspiratorial, illegal combinations" against the employer. Even when strikes by mill workers routinely got put down(striking was illegal) and became increasingly militant, the government did nothing to stop the employer(s) from cracking down in the interest of preserving the equality the founding fathers had supposedly achieved for the American people by forging a republic.
The female mill workers proved themselves to be at the vanguard of early American labor struggles, eventually winning the right to strike and to form labor unions, and in Marxist terms would have been considered part of the advanced section of a new class known as the proletariat.
in "The Principals of Communism," Engels wrote concerning the spontaneous rise of this new class in a reply to a question concerning whether or not they ever had existed before:
from: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm
Regardless, capitalists and the state that increasingly supported them continued to put down the working poor through a variety of repressive means throughout the entirety of the 19th century. Following the fall of the 1871 Paris Commune, New York City police actually crushed a peaceful demonstration in the heart of the city for fear that workers would rise up and form a "New York Commune." I'm dead serious.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tompkins_Square_Riot_%281874%29
The American state proved itself time and time again to be against reform, and as it hardened itself following every minor or major economic crisis it served only to protect itself from any uprising of the popular masses, insulating itself from further reform.
The founding fathers had, IMHO, failed in their mission to create an equal society, as well as to protect the American people from it's own government.
In 2012, there is no way the state would let itself be overthrown from below; no old, frail scrap of paper will prevent them from unleashing it's full power upon a rebellious American people.
Past attempts by revolutionaries to usher in centralized, iron-disciplined organization into a movement in order to overthrow governments had only ended in the creation of new, equally oppressive-if not more oppressive-left-wing states as a replacement to right-wing states.
There's a fine line between too much organization, and too little organization in a movement.
Im not advocating for revolution, however, if it came to that.... look at recent history. Im not saying we got beat in Iraq, but the insurgents killed quite a few US Troops with nothing more than assault rifles, guerilla tactics and IED's. any idiot with half a brain can build an IED. All the tanks and bombs and high tech equipment in the world, has been beaten or countered with lower tech simple, devices and smart deployment of such devices. Vietnam was a guerilla war. Now, nobody wants to wage a war against our own people, much less against all the intimidating gear that the Military has, But it is very doable, using the correct tactics. there are people among the civilian world who know these tactics and know the capabilities of military gear and tactics. Its very doable. and there are many many many weapons out there in the civilian world. A revolution could work, although its not ideal.
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Yeah I heard that america would be the worst country to try and invade became the cillivians are armed with alsorts of guns.
I thought the worst country to try and invade was Afganistan
The western media continues to deceive the world, particular those living in the west, about the TRUTH regarding the Soviet-Afghan war. The only reason why the Afghan mujahideen actually won and the Soviets "lost" is because Gorbachev was not committed to the war effort and withdrew troops from Afghanistan after less than 10 years of war! Only ~25,000 Soviet soldiers dies while more than 500,000 mujahideen terrorists were slaughtered. Afghanistan is NOT militarily invincible nor is it unconquerable! Tamerlane's Afghan campaign was astoundingly successful as he dealt the Afghans a humiliating defeat and then proceeded to colonize and civilize Afghanistan. I think that Afghans are people who are incapable of ruling themselves and that's why America's war effort there is failing.
The solution: Put one of the Turkic speaking ethnic groups in Power and let the Uzbeks deal with that country.
I think that there is one overriding factor that categorically stands in the way of a new American Revolution:
The vast majority of Americans have a good life.
The vast majority of people in the United States have access to inexpensive food; comfortable shelter; communications; entertainment and transportation. Americans have universal primary and secondary education free at the point of delivery, and--for all its shortcomings--excellent health care.
Are things perfect? Of course not. Could things be better? That goes without saying.
But can you honestly say that things are so bad in your country that you would take up arms against the government? I believe that the number of people who could honestly answer that question in the affirmative is a tiny, and frankly self-deluded, minority.
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