My thoughts on the English riots.

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I would also point out, that if no-one but the Government has guns, what's to stop them from taking over and becoming a dictatorship, especially if they don't care how many people they kill.

It is one of the reasons I am a strong supporter of the second Amendment. Or at least for those who have not used a gun for a violent crime.



No one claims they can save the world. They only claim that we can create a more sane and stable world. Numerous and wide scale riots are indications of instability and insanity to come.



And a consumerism economy hasn't caused that already? We have had depressions and recessions. We have deficits and debt. For example, we are over a trillion dollars in debt to China so we can consume cheap products from them.



Yes but the standard of living is not going up anymore. A consumerism economy just won't work anymore. When you have people who want to work and there are no jobs to the point that the whole country becomes stagnant, something is wrong with the system.

You and ruveryn have, in past posts, expressed concern about a stagnant society. Well, thanks to consumerism and the debt that came from it, that is where we are now. Basically no growth. And even capitalism is not the problem. Short sighted over-consumption and credit that is encouraged by a consumerism economy is.

It gets to the point that we need wide scale war to free us from being "stuck". If we don't try anything new there will be another wide scale war, possibly a world war. Mark my words. The economy will not recover in two years. We are stuck, and we would rather stay stuck than try something else.

I don't say this to push an agenda. I say it out of observation and concern. I wish a consumerism economy would work. It would make my life easier, but it won't due to the mess we are in now.

Do you really think barbarian "orcish" hordes having machine guns is a good idea!?

Anyway, for those who can read french here is a explanation of the England riots. http://matuqueestuneperruque.blogspot.com/2011/08/londres-ce-que-jai-un-jour-eu-envie.html

Basically, among the english youths there is a culture of violence bred by misery and exclusion.

Don't be silly. That is not what I think at all. For a group to be "orcish" implies they are violent and any act of extreme violence is mostly a crime in the United States. Therefore, they would be excluded or at least severely limited to any type of gun ownership.

It is not a good idea for weapon ownership to be solely given to those in positions of power. It gives more of an opportunity for those in power to oppress others. If you were infringing on the rights of citizens to the point of absurdity and murder, like the government is doing in Syria, at least the people can fight back. That's why people with a non-criminal record should have the opportunity to own guns.



I cannot speak for everyone, but I think it is safe to say that only the minority can speak French. I am interested in that explanation.

Why would English youth feel excluded? Poverty?

You can use Google Translate to translate the text into English. Just copy and paste the text from Tollorin's article into the box and the program will do the rest.

http://translate.google.com

what movie is that second one from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o

i think most of it was just looting thug youth. but some of it came from people like this stupid anchor too IMO.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqA9-QGhvZs&[/youtube]

street corner debate (clapham junction)

this one is worth the viewtime. it gets very heated at times but its real london people, no agenda or faux-'journalists' & a range of informed debate that is conspicuously missing from the mainstream media.

Why do all these threads always have to turn into political flame wars? -_-

We should be united in these times, not being at each others throats because somebody thinks differently to you!

you got a version without that damn clicking sound?

I come from Sheffield - the largest city which did NOT riot in England. By some estimates the third largest city in the UK, by others more like 7th (depends upon exactly where limits are drawn), but probably in the top 5 on average.

Why did we not riot here? We have extreme poverty - as much as any of the poorest in the UK. We also share a culture with the rest of England and don't have the separateness of Wales or Scotland. My view is that the reason is that Sheffield is less unequal than many other cities - there are the poor, but they are in the majority, and there are no super rich. The richest people here tend to be doctors, lawyers and university lecturers. There is little ostentiatious display of wealth and very few 'famous people' - after all, for the super rich, Sheffield is thought of as a poor, run down old industrial city, but for the rest of us, it is one of the best places to live in the UK, hence why more students who come here stay on after university than anywhere else, and why people are proud to live here and come from here.

Another reason perhaps is the trees - we have more trees per person than any other city in England, we are situated right on the edge of a National park (in fact city limits are inside the National park), and so people are more happy with their environment. People I know who have lived in Manchester and London and Birmingham, find Sheffield a lot more pleasant to live in, even though it is nothing special to look at from the outside. We have a large number of ethnic minorities (10 %), but little tension between them and other people.

My general impression of the riots (which seemed to me to be happenning in a different country), is that they are a symptom of excess capitalism - yes the rioters should be punished (particularly the ring leaders), but if we have reached a place where ordinary people can be caught up in doing things like this, then we have severe problems in society that have been caused by the general selfishness and greed of excessively capitalist societies, very rich people getting away with murder (literally, albeit indirectly) and others following their example (albeit subconsciously). I think this can only get worse in the future.