4 year old Autistic boy murdered by ignorant parents

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cyberdad
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05 Aug 2013, 7:14 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Above is the only mention of ASD in the original article that you linked to, if this confirms Autism in your mind I would be surprised.

One thing I can confirm is neither "you" or I are qualified to make judgements about the boy's condition. Even if this is anecdotal evidence (and coming from a paediatrician) then it's newsworthy. I am genuinely interested in any investigation (as I'm sure you are). So rather than speculating reasons for "why" I posted this on WP I suggest you wait like the rest of us for the outcome of a police/medical report.



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05 Aug 2013, 10:03 pm

DarkRain wrote:
I'd like to know the parents' side of the story before making any judgment calls.


I would like to show them the child's side of the story in an extremely judgemental way.
Perhaps they could then give an in depth analysis for each day of their own starvation and broken bones.



Kraichgauer
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05 Aug 2013, 10:21 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Making a rhetorical statement is not the same as making a joke.

I understand that.
Quote:
If true, I'd hate to see the child abuse in Poland.

Your point in making this statement is lost in me.


I'd rather get back to the subject at hand than to argue back and forth about proper use of rhetoric.

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06 Aug 2013, 1:09 am

Ann2011 wrote:
The thing with monsters (and these parents are monsters) is that you can't let them turn you into one. I think that's what Dox is saying.
If you let criminals set the bar for behaviour then they win.


Yes, that's pretty close. Some acts need to be defined as intrinsically evil and so far beyond the moral event horizon as to be wrong under any circumstances, even if the person they're being inflicted upon is themselves evil, there is simply no justification for them. I would say rape, torture, and mutilation fall under that category. Sadly, there are people right here on WP who would disagree with me on this.


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neilson_wheels
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06 Aug 2013, 4:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
One thing I can confirm is neither "you" or "I" are qualified to make judgements about the boy's condition.

That has been my point all through this conversation with you.

cyberdad wrote:
So rather than speculating reasons for "why" I posted this on WP

This did not happen, it's just another fabrication on your part.

You seem like an intelligent guy, I feel it would be more helpful to the community to present issues like this in a way that makes the events and the "facts" easier to understand rather than more confusing.

The main points here are, first, that this little boy suffered and died horribly, secondly, that the system allowed him to fall through the net that was specifically put in place to catch children like him and prevent harm.

In relation to Autism, I feel the main consideration is that signs of abuse can be mistaken for those of an ASC.

I'm concerned that a health professional could be convinced by the mother that her son's problems were of a medical origin and fail to examine the child during a consultation when he must have been in an obviously tragic state of health. Questions need to be asked if this person was suitable to be in that position

I have posted my opinions before, which you have ignored, so I will assume that you are not interested in a discussion that might be productive.



neilson_wheels
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06 Aug 2013, 4:59 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'd rather get back to the subject at hand than to argue back and forth about proper use of rhetoric.

Well don't make statements that could be misinterpreted as malicious then.



cyberdad
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06 Aug 2013, 5:11 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
One thing I can confirm is neither "you" or "I" are qualified to make judgements about the boy's condition.

That has been my point all through this conversation with you.

cyberdad wrote:
So rather than speculating reasons for "why" I posted this on WP

This did not happen, it's just another fabrication on your part.

You seem like an intelligent guy, I feel it would be more helpful to the community to present issues like this in a way that makes the events and the "facts" easier to understand rather than more confusing.

The main points here are, first, that this little boy suffered and died horribly, secondly, that the system allowed him to fall through the net that was specifically put in place to catch children like him and prevent harm.

In relation to Autism, I feel the main consideration is that signs of abuse can be mistaken for those of an ASC.

I'm concerned that a health professional could be convinced by the mother that her son's problems were of a medical origin and fail to examine the child during a consultation when he must have been in an obviously tragic state of health. Questions need to be asked if this person was suitable to be in that position

I have posted my opinions before, which you have ignored, so I will assume that you are not interested in a discussion that might be productive.


I do acknowledge you make some good points...



Ann2011
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06 Aug 2013, 1:10 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Ann2011 wrote:
The thing with monsters (and these parents are monsters) is that you can't let them turn you into one. I think that's what Dox is saying.
If you let criminals set the bar for behaviour then they win.


Yes, that's pretty close. Some acts need to be defined as intrinsically evil and so far beyond the moral event horizon as to be wrong under any circumstances, even if the person they're being inflicted upon is themselves evil, there is simply no justification for them. I would say rape, torture, and mutilation fall under that category. Sadly, there are people right here on WP who would disagree with me on this.

Exactly



Kraichgauer
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06 Aug 2013, 2:24 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'd rather get back to the subject at hand than to argue back and forth about proper use of rhetoric.

Well don't make statements that could be misinterpreted as malicious then.


If you consider my statement to be malicious, I'm sorry you misunderstood. I consider this discussion to be at an end.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



neilson_wheels
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06 Aug 2013, 2:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm sorry you misunderstood.

Me too.



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06 Aug 2013, 6:25 pm

why are people arguing over this topic being posted. :?
it shoudnt matter if he was definitely autistic or not, he was still a vulnerable young child failed by his school and social services and worst of all that pair of scumbags.

this happened in the UK,so they will be out in a few years,will have benefits and a free flat/house and they will serve the rest of the sentance on licence,typical UK 'life' sentance BS.
they shoud both be forcibly sterilized so they cant ever have anymore kids,no child deserves parents like that-if they didnt want the child they coud have had him placed into care,its not hard to phone or email the social services,plenty of parents in far worse situations than themselves have gone to them without torturing and neglecting their kid.

hope the lags in prison dole out a bit of that famous criminal justice on the pair.


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Kraichgauer
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06 Aug 2013, 8:01 pm

Here in the United States, CPS has a well earned bad reputation as well, going after people on flimsy or prejudicial evidence, while letting genuine monsters kill and maim their children. Not one of my favorite agencies.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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07 Aug 2013, 6:25 am

Yup, happens here too. One of the main reasons I don't like to leave the house.

It seems that, in the eyes of society and the bodies that oversee families, strong social skills (ie the ability to be engaging and to say what they want to hear) and high social standing matter far more than parenting skills.

Woman bullies doctor---------------> Gets the chance to starve her kid to death.

Woman with anxiety and poor eye contact asks for help because she's physically ill-----------------------> Almost loses kids.

I have a problem with that.


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neilson_wheels
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07 Aug 2013, 6:35 am

KingdomOfRats wrote:
why are people arguing over this topic being posted. :?
it shoudnt matter if he was definitely autistic or not, he was still a vulnerable young child failed by his school and social services and worst of all that pair of scumbags.


Hello Kingdom, I don't think anyone has argued that this should not be posted on WP. The only issue was that the idea was being promoted that the boy was killed because he was Autistic. This is more than probably false. I think it's more important to recognise that abuse trauma was mistaken for Autism.