10 killed in Buffalo in act of white supremacist terrorism

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Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:00 am

Buffalo gunman followed familiar radicalization path.

The 18-year-old gunman who committed a deadly racist rampage at a Buffalo supermarket fits an all-too-familiar profile: An aggrieved white man steeped in hate-filled conspiracies online, and inspired by other extremist massacres.

Payton Gendron of Conklin, New York, was driven to action roughly two years from when his radical indoctrination began, showing just how quickly and easily murderous assaults can be spawned on social media.  No tactical training or organizational help required.

While law enforcement officials have grown adept at disrupting well-organized plots, they face a much tougher challenge in intercepting self-radicalized young men who absorb racist screeds on social media and plot violence on their own.


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demeus
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17 May 2022, 11:13 am

First off, I want to say that this shooting occurred about a 15 minute walk from where I went to high school. I also worked at TOPS Markets during my college years but not at that particular store. The shooter was not from the community but I know for a fact that such ideas ans the shooter sprouted does exist in Buffalo NY.

This is the issue with the extremism that is coming from both sides of the aisle. In this case, it was right wing extremism but left wing extremism is just as bad. The problem with removing these message boards is that they will simply go underground using technology such as the TOR browser, VPNs, and require a crypto payment to get into the board. It will be tougher and tougher for the FBI to police. If you don't believe me, look at the issue with child porn. What you read in the news only scratches the surface of that problem.

What we need to do as a community is say no whenever we hear anything that harms the community, even if it is our friends saying it. We need to tell them that we do not want to hear that stuff and if they continue to talk that way, they will not be our friend too much longer. We need to stand with all people when stuff like happens and say no, this will not define our community.



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:15 am

↑ So you defend the open discussion of racist ideologies.

What are your REAL reasons for that?



demeus
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17 May 2022, 11:17 am

I don't defend it, I just know that you are not going to stop it as easily as people think it can be stopped.



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:18 am

demeus wrote:
I don't defend it, I just know that you are not going to stop it as easily as people think it can be stopped.
↑ Is that why you want to discourage people from even trying to eliminate racism?



demeus
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17 May 2022, 11:20 am

No, it is why I would rather it be out in the open where you have to stand by your statements and where law enforcement can monitor what is going on rather than behind multiple layers of security behind closed doors which seems to stay ahead of law enforcement.



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17 May 2022, 11:21 am

And if you look at my 3rd paragraph, I state how to stand up to such extremism. It is by standing together rather than arguing with each other when we are on the same side.



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:25 am

demeus wrote:
No, it is why I would rather it be out in the open where you have to stand by your statements and where law enforcement can monitor what is going on rather than behind multiple layers of security behind closed doors which seems to stay ahead of law enforcement.
Leaving it out in the open serves only to draw more people in; much like cigarette ads in the 1960s.  It is called "Passive Recruitment".  Drive it underground, and only those people actively searching for it will find it.  Active searches are easily flagged by law enforcement.
demeus wrote:
And if you look at my 3rd paragraph, I state how to stand up to such extremism. It is by standing together rather than arguing with each other when we are on the same side.
As long as you continue to support passive recruitment into radical racist ideologies, we will never be allies.



demeus
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17 May 2022, 11:42 am

What you are missing is the technology side. Look into how the TOR system and browser really work. Especially the TOR Onion. You cannot find things in TOR by simply doing a search on Google or even Duck Duck Go. Again, this is why the FBI cannot even begin to scratch the child porn issues on the internet. The FBI will in no way be able to control extremism if it ends up on the TOR system. Better to have it in the open then underground like that.



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:44 am

demeus wrote:
What you are missing is the technology side. Look into how the TOR system and browser really work. Especially the TOR Onion. You cannot find things in TOR by simply doing a search on Google or even Duck Duck Go. Again, this is why the FBI cannot even begin to scratch the child porn issues on the internet. The FBI will in no way be able to control extremism if it ends up on the TOR system. Better to have it in the open then underground like that.
Look, kid, I am an electrical engineer who specializes in network-based systems.  What I could teach you about TOR would take at least two semesters and cost you more money than you likely make in a year.

It is like you are trying to teach your grandpa how to chew cheese.


:lol:



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17 May 2022, 11:51 am

Then you should understand how hard it is to track things in TOR. What I don't want is to make the same mistakes the government made in dealing with child porn online (and face it, the government is way outmatched on that problem). I would rather have it in the open where people (and the organizations that host this stuff) have to be in the open where everyone (including the government) can see what they are saying. Imagine if this shooter used a TOR setup group and the government could not access his online statements.



demeus
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17 May 2022, 11:53 am

Fnord wrote:
demeus wrote:
What you are missing is the technology side. Look into how the TOR system and browser really work. Especially the TOR Onion. You cannot find things in TOR by simply doing a search on Google or even Duck Duck Go. Again, this is why the FBI cannot even begin to scratch the child porn issues on the internet. The FBI will in no way be able to control extremism if it ends up on the TOR system. Better to have it in the open then underground like that.
Look, kid, I am an electrical engineer who specializes in network-based systems.  What I could teach you about TOR would take at least two semesters and cost you more money than you likely make in a year.

It is like you are trying to teach your grandpa how to chew cheese.


:lol:


And I am an older computer scientist who understands the software side of these things so I know what I am talking about too.



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 11:54 am

demeus wrote:
Then you should understand how hard it is to track things in TOR. . .
LOL!  Quite the opposite, in fact!

:lol:



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17 May 2022, 11:55 am

demeus wrote:
And I am an older computer scientist who understands the software side of these things so I know what I am talking about too.

Image



Nades
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17 May 2022, 12:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
demeus wrote:
Then you should understand how hard it is to track things in TOR. . .
LOL!  Quite the opposite, in fact!

:lol:


Going off track a bit but what failings in TOR makes it easy to zero in on users?



Fnord
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17 May 2022, 12:13 pm

Nades wrote:
Fnord wrote:
demeus wrote:
Then you should understand how hard it is to track things in TOR. . .
LOL!  Quite the opposite, in fact!

:lol:
Going off track a bit but what failings in TOR makes it easy to zero in on users?
While certainly not as easy as an open forum for the exchange of ideas, the very fact that TOR exists, and that people are accessing TOR makes it easier to find and track those who use TOR than most people think.

Sure, it is not as if anyone could switch on a Radio Shack branded "TOR-Tracker" and know immediately what each user has on their hard drives, but the methods and equipment used by law-enforcement, both foreign and domestic, are far beyond what most civilians have available.