LOTS of manga/anime now illegal in Sweden; soon to be in EU

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Tequila you and me are in the same boat. Go Tequila.

I for one find amusement in this. You may legally have physical, sexual intercourse with fifteen years old individuals in Sweden, and obtaining a drawing depicting a nude, seventeen years old child makes you a criminal sex-offender.

Update for the Swedish case regarding translator and manga expert Simon Lundström (this case is also known as 'mangamålet'):

www.bleedingcool.com/forums/front-page- ... omics.html

www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/1172 ... hy-Charges

www.thelocal.se/40878/20120516/

www.thelocal.se/40842/20120515/

This thought crime persecution with the ridiculous goal to protect virtual minors that only exist in comic books happens almost everywhere. Artistic renditions of minors in sexual situations, or even in sexualized poses, have been illegal for quite some time in Germany. Even in the USA, people can be branded sex offenders and sentenced to 20 years in prison for buying a comic book (link).

The German law takes it even further. It is nowadays illegal to produce or watch pornography if one of the models or performers looks like a minor according to the subjective opinion of a judge (§ 184c of the StGB, the German penal code). It doesn't matter how old the model actually is. This means that we have effectively banned the depiction of small breasts and discriminate against people with a juvenile appearance. Cup size below C? "Sorry, you're not allowed to work as a nude magazine model or porn actress because you're not a real woman. Only a pedophile could be turned on by you, you freak of nature."

Hustler Europe has filed a constitutional complaint against this nonsense back in 2008, with no success (link). German legislators insist that Hustler is producing child porn if one of the models sports pigtails. I wonder at which point these models, which the German law calls "Scheinjugendliche" (minors in appearance), will be prohibited from having sex at all.

Thank God! Maybe they will do that over here. I hate anime! For some reason the way it's drawn just freaks me out.

I don't really want them to make it illegal here, kids like anime. Pokemon, Avatar, Sailor Moon, that other one, all of those. But just the way it's drawn looks so funny to me and not ha ha funny but creep me out funny.

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It would not be wise to ban Manga in the EU because lots of teens and children buy Manga it is very popular in North and South America.

Simulated Child porn depicted in Manga comic books has been illegal in the US, since 2003 per the Protect act outlawing "cartoons, drawings, sculptures or paintings depicting minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct, and which lack “serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value", however no one was convicted until 2010, per standard of possessing the comics alone, without other child pornography.


http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/02/obscene-us-manga-collector-jailed-6-months/

Some people in the US, may not realize that the Manga comic books depicting children in sex acts have been illegal since 2003. That is an objective problem with the laws, that they went so long without a prosecution or enforcement, that the guy receiving the comic books may not have realized they were illegal. Facing a 15 year prison sentence, he didn't have much choice but to plead guilty and accept a 6 month sentence.

Cultural norms in countries with laws are reflected by those laws. The enforcement of cultural norms, is the main reason countries have laws.

I can't purchase a pornographic video in my entire state, because the cultural norms and laws don't allow it. However, the internet provides access to almost anything, laws or no laws.

It works the other way as well, when one is moving goal posts. Communities, through a democratic process determine what cultural norms are and legally enforce them, to restrict behavior, that is not part of the culturaly accepted norm.

The internet has allowed these community and state laws to be bypassed, to protect first ammendment rights, however it tramples on the rights of communities to establish and maintain cultural norms for their citizenship.

A little bit of censorship to protect the overall rights of those in entire countries, not to be bound by the cultural norms of smaller communities, is a fair trade off, considering that a decision could be made to completely ban internet porn as has been attempted in other countries. If there is a price to paid not to look at simulated child porn, that's not too high of a price to pay to keep the extreme amount of freedom that is already provided, beyond and above some local community standards, in the US.

I can't speak for Sweden, Germany, or the UK, but child porn is never going to be an accepted as a cultural norm in the US, regardless if it is animated or the real thing. That is where the US currently draws the line.

I'm surprised that Germany and Australia enforce stricter laws than the US. That's interesting; I wouldn't be surprised if the US eventually follows suit. Some of the stuff that is "legally" marketed definitely pushes the 12 to 13 year old danger zone, as to what could possibly be an adult of the age of consent. That's not something that is acceptable to the cultural norm in the US; it's unfortunate that goal post has to be moved that far, but it will be, if that is what it takes to protect overall cultural norms.

That is the way society works, and the internet is providing problems that don't have easy solutions to maintain the cultural norms. And as a moral judgement of whether it is good or bad, religious attitude does not necessarly have to come into play, the society as a whole determines what the cultural norm is, and it is provided per cultural demand through laws. If these goal posts were not provided there would neither be cultural norms, laws, or civilization. Society determines where to place them.

As the young man in Sweden said, if he can't promote the comic books in Sweden he will move to Japan. That is the smart decision, because in Japan it is an acceptable part of the cultural norm, and will likely stay that way for some time to come, as it is deeply rooted in Japanese tradition.

The global market spreads cultural norms through media that aren't acceptable in some countries, it is an interesting phenomenon, and one that doesn't always have easy answers.

Freedom of expression is limited in most countries, no one has the intrinsic right or freedom to look at simulated child porn, or even small breasted women on the internet; cultures determine this, and if one doesn't want to live by the cultural rules, they can either risk breaking those rules, paying the penalties, or moving somewhere where the cultural norm allows it.

12 years old, is the age of consent still in a few countries as well as the legality of underage pornography. If one was so inclined, and doesn't want to risk breaking the law and paying the penalty, one could move to those countries, in hopes to fulfill what they want in life.

And it works the opposite way as well, particularly for women that do not have the same freedoms in some countries, as are provided in countries like the US, that have different social norms, and laws protecting women.

Countries don't break the cultural norm and change the laws, so the minority of individuals can enjoy what is considered deviant behavior in those cultures. If the local community laws that outlaw pornography where widespread in metropolitan areas of the US, porn would be censored on the internet in the US, but it is was already part of the cultural norm in many greatly populated areas in the US, so the rights of everyone supercede the rights of some to limit this freedom of expression.

Child pornography is not legal anywhere in the US; it's not ever going to happen in drawings or in real life, to suit the needs of a what is considered by overall cultural norms as a deviant part of the culture.

And with the way that internet porn marketers are pushing the envelope of what is "young", we could see the same type of laws in Germany restricting pornography from what looks young.

Wow, that would be difficult to enforce though, considering the amount of anonymous stuff that is uploaded now world wide. There aren't enough jails, but if fines were provided, it would certainly be a big moneymaker, along with ruining life prospects by being noted as a sex offender.

At this point there doesn't seem much other way to protect the perceived cultural norms, if the society as a whole demands it. The difficulties in logistics of enforcing such laws, probably defers some of the potential restrictions or censorship that might otherwise be enforced. There's likely Hundreds of thousands of men looking at the "barely legal" stuff as we speak.

It is what the majority of pornographers have promoted from the get go; the target audience with the inherent sexual instinct to seek young females that are sexually mature and fertile. They aren't normally marketed as virtual willing sexual participants in the real world, though.

It changes the cultural norm to barely mature; that's not a cultural norm in the US, although it is in a few countries. My understanding is that this comprises the overwhelming majority of child porn identified by lawenforcement on the internet; young teens.

These guys are not necessarily inherent internet pedophiles, those folks are understood to be fairly rare per country; the pornographers are going after the entire male population as a target audience in promoting mature girls that look like they are in their young teens; not a small a part of a target audience, that deals mostly in clandestine groups on the interent engaging in what most would consider horrifying deviant behavior. The young teen stuff is still considered deviant by the standards of the entire society though.

It will be interesting to see how society and law enforcement deals with this issue as it becomes a larger one as the market continues to grow on the internet. Apparently Germany has gotten serious about it. Sexting provides a new source of it, by those that willingly participate in the activity, however that doesn't change overall cultural norms to make it acceptable, at least not in the US.

Once it get's on the internet, it is no longer between just two consenting teenagers. It changes the cultural norms for society as a whole, when that change is not wanted by society as a whole. Society as a whole makes and determines the rules; they get the final say so, in what happens, per country, at least in the ones that attempt a fair political system.