White House tried to pressure 4 star general to lie to congr

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Inuyasha
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17 Sep 2011, 2:39 pm

With the White House already reeling over the Solyndra collapse, a new scandal may have erupted today that could make the disappearance of $535 million in taxpayer funds look like a paperwork glitch. Eli Lake starts off his new gig at The Daily Beast with a huge bombshell — an accusation made to members of Congress from a four-star Air Force general that claimed the White House pressured him to change his testimony to boost a big donor to the Democratic Party:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/15/b ... tic-donor/

So we have a solar company scandal, him playing games with the lives of our troops, and now trying to get a 4 Star General to lie to congress, I seriously hope liberals here wake up.



Mack27
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17 Sep 2011, 4:06 pm

Crony capitalism is the Chicago way!



Kraichgauer
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17 Sep 2011, 4:10 pm

Bush had General Kashvilli (spelling?) fired for disagreeing with him and Cheney about the Iraq War. It turns out, the general was right. Then there's the financial scheming by Haliburton, and the murders (yes, MURDERS!) committed by Blackwater in Iraq for insane racist and Christian fundamentalist reasons. Who needs to wake up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Sep 2011, 2:10 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Bush had General Kashvilli (spelling?) fired for disagreeing with him and Cheney about the Iraq War. It turns out, the general was right. Then there's the financial scheming by Haliburton, and the murders (yes, MURDERS!) committed by Blackwater in Iraq for insane racist and Christian fundamentalist reasons. Who needs to wake up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


:roll:

Right....

Next you'll be claiming that Bush flew the planes into the World Trade Center...

While some of the things you are mentioning are true, you connecting things that really don't connect.

What I am pointing out is the White House tried to get a 4 star General to commit perjury, which is a felony, plus compromise National Security in the Process, which kinda sounds treasonous, don't you think. Oh btw, the White House kinda admitted they attempted to get the General to commit perjury.



jojobean
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18 Sep 2011, 8:26 am

this type of political presuring is nothing new and not unique to just democrats.
often someone who does not "play ball", their life suddenly goes to hell in a spetacular way, which is why he came out about it, to buffer himself.


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Inuyasha
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18 Sep 2011, 2:28 pm

jojobean wrote:
this type of political presuring is nothing new and not unique to just democrats.
often someone who does not "play ball", their life suddenly goes to hell in a spetacular way, which is why he came out about it, to buffer himself.


Doesn't change the fact this is an impeachable offense.



ruveyn
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18 Sep 2011, 3:10 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
jojobean wrote:
this type of political presuring is nothing new and not unique to just democrats.
often someone who does not "play ball", their life suddenly goes to hell in a spetacular way, which is why he came out about it, to buffer himself.


Doesn't change the fact this is an impeachable offense.


Nothing is an impeachable offense until the House of Representatives pass a bill of impeachment. Hell, Bill Clinton was impeached (but not removed from office) because he was getting head from his tootsie, Monica.

ruveyn



visagrunt
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18 Sep 2011, 4:50 pm

We've been around this issue in PPR.

I see nothing to support the claim to "falsification."

The General takes his orders from the President. If the President has decided that the policy of the Administration is to facilitate more broadband for commercial use, then the General's role is to salute and speak as he is instructed to do.

There is a place for dissent in government policy choices, and that place is in the discussions internal to government. Once the political leadership takes the decision, though, the appointed public service and military command are required to fall in line behind their political masters.

If the General cannot, in good conscience, follow the administration, then his honourable course of action is to resign.

Now, if there is an issue of corruption--and I see a perfectly good argument that there is--then take the argument where it belongs. This isn't about the President giving orders to a general, this is about improper influence over decision making.

But you have allowed a political environment to come into existence where commercial interests have unlimited access to contribute campaign finance. You can hardly be surprised at the result.


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18 Sep 2011, 5:24 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bush had General Kashvilli (spelling?) fired for disagreeing with him and Cheney about the Iraq War. It turns out, the general was right. Then there's the financial scheming by Haliburton, and the murders (yes, MURDERS!) committed by Blackwater in Iraq for insane racist and Christian fundamentalist reasons. Who needs to wake up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


:roll:

Right....

Next you'll be claiming that Bush flew the planes into the World Trade Center...

While some of the things you are mentioning are true, you connecting things that really don't connect.

What I am pointing out is the White House tried to get a 4 star General to commit perjury, which is a felony, plus compromise National Security in the Process, which kinda sounds treasonous, don't you think. Oh btw, the White House kinda admitted they attempted to get the General to commit perjury.


For one, I'm not a Truther by any means.
And another - everything I wrote about in my post is one hundred percent true. We have the general's own word about why he was fired. Plus the machinations of Haliburton, and the atrocities committed by Blackwater are well documented. Apparently, Fox and Limbaugh have chosen not to report on any if this.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Sep 2011, 5:37 pm

visagrunt wrote:
We've been around this issue in PPR.

I see nothing to support the claim to "falsification."

The General takes his orders from the President. If the President has decided that the policy of the Administration is to facilitate more broadband for commercial use, then the General's role is to salute and speak as he is instructed to do.

There is a place for dissent in government policy choices, and that place is in the discussions internal to government. Once the political leadership takes the decision, though, the appointed public service and military command are required to fall in line behind their political masters.

If the General cannot, in good conscience, follow the administration, then his honourable course of action is to resign.

Now, if there is an issue of corruption--and I see a perfectly good argument that there is--then take the argument where it belongs. This isn't about the President giving orders to a general, this is about improper influence over decision making.

But you have allowed a political environment to come into existence where commercial interests have unlimited access to contribute campaign finance. You can hardly be surprised at the result.


You left out the part about the company's product happens to jam Military GPS, missile Guidence systems, and Civilian GPS. I would think that is a serious national security issue, don't you?



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19 Sep 2011, 10:54 am

Inuyasha wrote:
You left out the part about the company's product happens to jam Military GPS, missile Guidence systems, and Civilian GPS. I would think that is a serious national security issue, don't you?


But we're not talking about the national security issue. We are talking about whether the White House is within its authority to give instructions to military officers and public servants.

Keep yourself on topic. If you want to start a thread about the company's product, then by all means do so--but don't call it, "White House tried to pressure 4 star general to lie to congress."


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19 Sep 2011, 12:22 pm

The president telling the general what to say regardless of the truth is not a crime. You obviously dont know how the military opperates. A person in the military is practacly owned by the government...they have to do what they are told or get discharged. When my dad was a AF reserve director, he had a historian on board. He asked the historian, so what do you write about the current events for the AF reserve? He replied, I just make sh*t up.
However, if the general decides not to obey...life can get complicated quick. It is a system that has been in place to keep everyone in line in the military since George washington's day, until recently with the patriot act, some aspects have been extended to civilians and got alot more high tech.

but this military order is older than our nation, based on that, I seriously doubt he will be impeached for it. Military laws are different from civilian laws.

Jojo


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Mack27
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19 Sep 2011, 4:28 pm

Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury not for getting a blowjob. Granted, if he didn't get the blowjob he wouldn't have lied about it under oath, but saying he was impeached for the blowjob is like saying a drunk driver was arrested for drinking instead of for driving drunk.

The general's chain of command doesn't go through white house staffers, so unless he was receiving pressure directly from the president he can thumb his nose at "whitehouse pressure" all day long and still be perfectly within his duties and his oath. By the way, his oath to defend the US constitution (which the President also takes) supersedes the President's authority to order him to do anything. If the president told the general to nuke congress the general would be honor-bound to not obey such an unlawful order.



visagrunt
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19 Sep 2011, 5:07 pm

Mack27 wrote:
Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury not for getting a blowjob. Granted, if he didn't get the blowjob he wouldn't have lied about it under oath, but saying he was impeached for the blowjob is like saying a drunk driver was arrested for drinking instead of for driving drunk.

The general's chain of command doesn't go through white house staffers, so unless he was receiving pressure directly from the president he can thumb his nose at "whitehouse pressure" all day long and still be perfectly within his duties and his oath. By the way, his oath to defend the US constitution (which the President also takes) supersedes the President's authority to order him to do anything. If the president told the general to nuke congress the general would be honor-bound to not obey such an unlawful order.


Anyone who "thumbs his nose" at his commander-in-chief's officials is walking a very fine line. My chain of command does not include the Minister's policy advisors--but if I get an instruction from one of them, then I treat it as if it comes from the Minister, unless there is good reason not to so so. I suggest that prudence dictates that you ask the question, "does this come from the top?" If you are told, "yes," then you respond, "how high?" If the answer is, "no," then the correct response is to ask for it to be confirmed from the top.

As for the oath to defend the US Constitution, I see nothing in the White House's messaging that contradicts that oath. Certainly an illegal order is no order at all. But this is not, so far as I can see, within that class.


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19 Sep 2011, 7:38 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Bush had General Kashvilli (spelling?) fired for disagreeing with him and Cheney about the Iraq War. It turns out, the general was right. Then there's the financial scheming by Haliburton, and the murders (yes, MURDERS!) committed by Blackwater in Iraq for insane racist and Christian fundamentalist reasons. Who needs to wake up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


How about Christan Radicals, apparently that has been rumored even with one of the Presidental Canadiates Rick Perry, since he wants to enforce this religion and eliminate Free Religion and Free Culture indifinately...



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19 Sep 2011, 7:47 pm

Jeffrey228 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Bush had General Kashvilli (spelling?) fired for disagreeing with him and Cheney about the Iraq War. It turns out, the general was right. Then there's the financial scheming by Haliburton, and the murders (yes, MURDERS!) committed by Blackwater in Iraq for insane racist and Christian fundamentalist reasons. Who needs to wake up?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


How about Christan Radicals, apparently that has been rumored even with one of the Presidental Canadiates Rick Perry, since he wants to enforce this religion and eliminate Free Religion and Free Culture indifinately...


I have been warning about radicals in the religious right till I'm blue in the face, and ready to pass out. I agree, Perry's association with this New Apostolic Reformation, who were behind that prayer fest at the Superbowl, is very unnerving.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer