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Will the US be like a rerun of the fall of the Roman Empire?

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richie
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19 Oct 2011, 7:50 am

We might go the way of Rome but we need not worry about the Barbarians pounding the gates.....We ARE the Barbarians! :P


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Biokinetica
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20 Oct 2011, 4:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The U.S. barely had an empire and it lasted for a short time. We had our little adventures in the Carribean and have terminated them. We gave up the loot, the Phillipines, and Cuba and we hang on to Puerto Rico only because the PR folks want us to. No more Panama Canal.

Good bye empire. Our decline will have almost nothing in common with the fall of Rome.

ruveyn

I disagree; nearly every empire that has fallen has done so due to economics. The US is displaying some of that now. The Aztecs are the only ones who fell due to invasion, and even then, there was a weird religious component to it.

Your definition of "empire" is also debatable. While no one disagrees that acquisition of land is a component, how the land is actually claimed is a political matter that can have many different flavors to it.



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20 Oct 2011, 4:18 pm

Or...
Maybe we're at our Roman Republic stage. The Roman Republic was destroyed from within due to gross economic disparity between the classes, and autocratic thugs like Julius Caesar and Octavian (Augustus) Caesar who appealed to the masses with a right wing populism, while consolidating power for themselves at the top.
Sound familiar?

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21 Oct 2011, 1:44 pm

Biokinetica wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The U.S. barely had an empire and it lasted for a short time. We had our little adventures in the Carribean and have terminated them. We gave up the loot, the Phillipines, and Cuba and we hang on to Puerto Rico only because the PR folks want us to. No more Panama Canal.

Good bye empire. Our decline will have almost nothing in common with the fall of Rome.

ruveyn

I disagree; nearly every empire that has fallen has done so due to economics. The US is displaying some of that now. The Aztecs are the only ones who fell due to invasion, and even then, there was a weird religious component to it.

Your definition of "empire" is also debatable. While no one disagrees that acquisition of land is a component, how the land is actually claimed is a political matter that can have many different flavors to it.


How can you say that the USA is an "empire"!
Not only are we not an empire, but we invade and conquer everyone who claims that we are one!



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21 Oct 2011, 10:43 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoWtHqmITOM[/youtube]



XLCR
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22 Oct 2011, 1:24 pm

Yes indeed, an empire can fall very quickly. Look at the Soviet empire. You should be able to remember that, the latest to fall and only 22 years ago. It's fall was almost overnight and practically bloodless.

Remember that the last century saw the fall of almost all existent empires. The Russian, German, and Austrio-Hungarian empires fell in WWI, the Japanese empire went down in WWII. The British, French, Dutch, and Portugese colonial empires went down after the war, and then there were the Soviets.

That leaves only one survivor. Yes, you guessed it, the US. I believe that the age of empires is over. Only one more to fall.

In a way you could say it's already fallen, because our government has been colonized by the transnational corporations, all governments have. If you try to pass laws against them they just say "well hey, if you are going to regulate us, we will just pull out and go somewhere else". So they have you over a barrel, pure blackmail. How can you say we rule ourselves when we elect people but the corporations pay for their campaigns and tell them how to vote? What does that make our vote worth?

How can anyone in their right mind call that democracy? Stop being blind about it. When you go to the polls next year, you will be making a choice between Hallburton or Goldman Sachs to run the country. How is that democracy?

They have no only taken our government away from us, they are also polluting the planet like crazy everywhere they can get away with it. They will leave us broke, starving, and living on a garbage pile.

We can stand up and fight now, or face that for a future. There are no other choices.

We are the 99%



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22 Oct 2011, 1:27 pm

XLCR wrote:
Yes indeed, an empire can fall very quickly. Look at the Soviet empire. You should be able to remember that, the latest to fall and only 22 years ago. It's fall was almost overnight and practically bloodless.

Remember that the last century saw the fall of almost all existent empires. The Russian, German, and Austrio-Hungarian empires fell in WWI, the Japanese empire went down in WWII. The British, French, Dutch, and Portugese colonial empires went down after the war, and then there were the Soviets.

That leaves only one survivor. Yes, you guessed it, the US. I believe that the age of empires is over. Only one more to fall.

In a way you could say it's already fallen, because our government has been colonized by the transnational corporations, all governments have. If you try to pass laws against them they just say "well hey, if you are going to regulate us, we will just pull out and go somewhere else". So they have you over a barrel, pure blackmail. How can you say we rule ourselves when we elect people but the corporations pay for their campaigns and tell them how to vote? What does that make our vote worth?

How can anyone in their right mind call that democracy? Stop being blind about it. When you go to the polls next year, you will be making a choice between Hallburton or Goldman Sachs to run the country. How is that democracy?

They have no only taken our government away from us, they are also polluting the planet like crazy everywhere they can get away with it. They will leave us broke, starving, and living on a garbage pile.

We can stand up and fight now, or face that for a future. There are no other choices.

We are the 99%


Amen!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 Oct 2011, 4:14 pm

Its looking that way.



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22 Oct 2011, 5:04 pm

XLCR wrote:
Yes indeed, an empire can fall very quickly. Look at the Soviet empire. You should be able to remember that, the latest to fall and only 22 years ago. It's fall was almost overnight and practically bloodless.

Remember that the last century saw the fall of almost all existent empires. The Russian, German, and Austrio-Hungarian empires fell in WWI, the Japanese empire went down in WWII. The British, French, Dutch, and Portugese colonial empires went down after the war, and then there were the Soviets.

That leaves only one survivor. Yes, you guessed it, the US. I believe that the age of empires is over. Only one more to fall.

In a way you could say it's already fallen, because our government has been colonized by the transnational corporations, all governments have. If you try to pass laws against them they just say "well hey, if you are going to regulate us, we will just pull out and go somewhere else". So they have you over a barrel, pure blackmail. How can you say we rule ourselves when we elect people but the corporations pay for their campaigns and tell them how to vote? What does that make our vote worth?

How can anyone in their right mind call that democracy? Stop being blind about it. When you go to the polls next year, you will be making a choice between Hallburton or Goldman Sachs to run the country. How is that democracy?

They have no only taken our government away from us, they are also polluting the planet like crazy everywhere they can get away with it. They will leave us broke, starving, and living on a garbage pile.

We can stand up and fight now, or face that for a future. There are no other choices.

We are the 99%


Why add the last sentence really?



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22 Oct 2011, 5:18 pm

Gedrene wrote:
XLCR wrote:
Yes indeed, an empire can fall very quickly. Look at the Soviet empire. You should be able to remember that, the latest to fall and only 22 years ago. It's fall was almost overnight and practically bloodless.

Remember that the last century saw the fall of almost all existent empires. The Russian, German, and Austrio-Hungarian empires fell in WWI, the Japanese empire went down in WWII. The British, French, Dutch, and Portugese colonial empires went down after the war, and then there were the Soviets.

That leaves only one survivor. Yes, you guessed it, the US. I believe that the age of empires is over. Only one more to fall.

In a way you could say it's already fallen, because our government has been colonized by the transnational corporations, all governments have. If you try to pass laws against them they just say "well hey, if you are going to regulate us, we will just pull out and go somewhere else". So they have you over a barrel, pure blackmail. How can you say we rule ourselves when we elect people but the corporations pay for their campaigns and tell them how to vote? What does that make our vote worth?

How can anyone in their right mind call that democracy? Stop being blind about it. When you go to the polls next year, you will be making a choice between Hallburton or Goldman Sachs to run the country. How is that democracy?

They have no only taken our government away from us, they are also polluting the planet like crazy everywhere they can get away with it. They will leave us broke, starving, and living on a garbage pile.

We can stand up and fight now, or face that for a future. There are no other choices.

We are the 99%


Why add the last sentence really?


Because that's who we all are. Got an "Amen!" out of me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Oct 2011, 12:02 am

I hope when the US goes down we take all our nukes and launch all our chemical agents, and biological weapons against all of europe, the middle east, latin america, and asia. Bring it all down in a real James Cagney "Top of the world Ma!" type moment to clean the slate :twisted: :P :lol:

It is better that the whole world dies with the US because I am sure no other nations could live without the US of A to hate and blame all their problems on. :roll: :P :lol:


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Last edited by Todesking on 25 Oct 2011, 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Oct 2011, 12:12 am

On serious note. I wonder what type of hellish born again christian facist organization would come crawling out of the ashes to command of the surviving remenents of the old USA? It would be like when Hitler took over the collapsed Germany creating the nightmarish facist government except our new facist "fearless leader" will have some of the best military technology at his disposal. We will go from being the world's policeman to the world's wicked warden.


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25 Oct 2011, 12:45 am

Todesking wrote:
On serious note. I wonder what type of hellish born again christian facist organization would come crawling out of the ashes to command of the surviving remenents of the old USA? It would be like when Hitler took over the collapsed Germany creating the nightmarish facist government except our new facist "fearless leader" will have some of the best military technology at his disposal. We will go from being the world's policeman to the world's wicked warden.


Maybe you could expect some sort of future dystopia like you'll find in the Mad Max movies, or The Postman.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Oct 2011, 1:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Todesking wrote:
On serious note. I wonder what type of hellish born again christian facist organization would come crawling out of the ashes to command of the surviving remenents of the old USA? It would be like when Hitler took over the collapsed Germany creating the nightmarish facist government except our new facist "fearless leader" will have some of the best military technology at his disposal. We will go from being the world's policeman to the world's wicked warden.


Maybe you could expect some sort of future dystopia like you'll find in the Mad Max movies, or The Postman.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I will reap a horrible revenge against the NT's in such a world. If it becomes a new political system in America if the masses go too far left and are waving little red books becoming communist I'll be in the front row waving my little red book with such a fury and screaming at the crowd to burn it all down. If the masses go too far right and the masses are giving the facist salute I will be in the front row saluting higher and longer than everyone else then I will scream burn it all down. Either way I will try to worm my way into whatever group takes over where I will try to get a job as an inquisitor so I can punish those who did me wrong in my life so I can send them and their families to the work camps declaring them traitors to the party. If it becomes a theocracy I will be the foaming at the mouth religious zealot even though I do not believe in any diety jsut so long as I can get some power over my former tormentors. I will do whatever it takes to see my enemies sent away to horrible existances some I'll kill right away others I will let exist as their suffering would please me. :twisted: 8)


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25 Oct 2011, 2:04 am

Todesking wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Todesking wrote:
On serious note. I wonder what type of hellish born again christian facist organization would come crawling out of the ashes to command of the surviving remenents of the old USA? It would be like when Hitler took over the collapsed Germany creating the nightmarish facist government except our new facist "fearless leader" will have some of the best military technology at his disposal. We will go from being the world's policeman to the world's wicked warden.


Maybe you could expect some sort of future dystopia like you'll find in the Mad Max movies, or The Postman.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


I will reap a horrible revenge against the NT's in such a world. If it becomes a new political system in America if the masses go too far left and are waving little red books becoming communist I'll be in the front row waving my little red book with such a fury and screaming at the crowd to burn it all down. If the masses go too far right and the masses are giving the facist salute I will be in the front row saluting higher and longer than everyone else then I will scream burn it all down. Either way I will try to worm my way into whatever group takes over where I will try to get a job as an inquisitor so I can punish those who did me wrong in my life so I can send them and their families to the work camps declaring them traitors to the party. If it becomes a theocracy I will be the foaming at the mouth religious zealot even though I do not believe in any diety jsut so long as I can get some power over my former tormentors. I will do whatever it takes to see my enemies sent away to horrible existances some I'll kill right away others I will let exist as their suffering would please me. :twisted: 8)


Every Aspie's dream, man! 8)

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Biokinetica
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08 Feb 2012, 1:16 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Biokinetica wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The U.S. barely had an empire and it lasted for a short time. We had our little adventures in the Carribean and have terminated them. We gave up the loot, the Phillipines, and Cuba and we hang on to Puerto Rico only because the PR folks want us to. No more Panama Canal.

Good bye empire. Our decline will have almost nothing in common with the fall of Rome.

ruveyn

I disagree; nearly every empire that has fallen has done so due to economics. The US is displaying some of that now. The Aztecs are the only ones who fell due to invasion, and even then, there was a weird religious component to it.

Your definition of "empire" is also debatable. While no one disagrees that acquisition of land is a component, how the land is actually claimed is a political matter that can have many different flavors to it.


How can you say that the USA is an "empire"!
Not only are we not an empire, but we invade and conquer everyone who claims that we are one!

Conquest assumes assimilation; while the US regularly exports its culture to the outside and especially the territories, it very rarely brings those territories or any portions of their culture into the fold of the US. All cultural import is voluntary, with almost no help from the state. Not like the Roman empire which actively enforced its own culture on newly conquered populations.