Ohio, Chardon High School shooting, 3 dead.

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I know I am not capable of it. I don't see how others are so calm and collected to commit violent acts. I would be shaking like a leaf if I pointed a gun at someone. Confrontations cause shortness of breath and something like a panic attack which is why I dislike profiling so much. I hate the idea of violence and I am sure there are plenty of 'good' people who believe revenge is great and shootings are justified if someone does something to piss them off. Such people may be over achievers with plenty of friends. They appear well adjusted and others may even agree with and support their views. Then, one day, someone comes along and does something they don't like or agree with and they feel justified to seek revenge, then they acquire a gun and shoot the place up, hoping they got the person they are pissed at, but not always.

The media doesn't hype such people as society's losers who act out. Instead they are portrayed as good people who snapped or 'are not well' which I read someone described TJ Lane as. People do not want to admit someone they revere as good might be a monster on the inside. A putrid hidden ulcer festering for years.

I really couldn't disagree with you more. If I'm going to generalize, I would say it's people who aren't very bright who are more inclined to violence. They show evidence of this in small ways all the time. They have tendencies toward passive aggression, for example. Losers I guess who can't do any better. I'm really not that interested that much in this topic but what you've said here doesn't make much sense to me anyway.

What I am saying is so-called losers are not the only ones who go on shooting sprees. People from other socio-economic classes are perfectly capable of it.

From what I read of TJ Lane, he is not a lazy loser struggling at the bottom of the social rung. I read he had friends, is we liked by other kids, made good grades and wanted to enroll in more classes in order to gain early admission into a good college. Does not sound like the profile of a school shooter. He is an example of the festering ulcer type of criminal. People cannot see the ulcer but it is there. How can you say it doesn't make sense based on the biographical info about T J Lane?

People from other socio-economic classes can also be losers. How much a person earns isn't an automatic indicator of intelligence, for example, although it can be. Losers can have loads of friends. That doesn't necessarily mean they're wonderfully bright. I'm not saying smart people aren't also capable of crimes also. I said if I was going to generalize, that would more be my generalization.

Yes, but the media doesn't portray losers that way. A loser is an outcast or someone who comes from a broken home, according to the media. Loners are demonized as serial killers while all school shooters are unpopular and victims of bullying. School shooters can never be the bright kid from a good family who does well, has a lot of friends and charms teachers.

That's a preconceived notion. I know very well paid people who are total losers. They also assume that everyone from a broken home is destitute.

I too believe I'm not capable of killing anyone based on my experience to this point; apparently we share that in common.

No one can accurately guarantee at the present moment, what their future behavior or circumstances will be. That's not just a belief, it's a fact. But, I'm not suggesting that it proves that everyone is capable of killing or that you are capable of killing.

There is scientific evidence that humans have a built in physiological aversion to harming other human beings, and themselves. +1 On your statement that you are not capable of killing.

However, that aversion can be circumvented wittingly or unwittingly, when one is distanced from their action that results in the harm or killing of another human being.

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~cushman/publications/Publications_files/harm_web.pdf

Pulling the trigger of a gun, is the most prevalent method of homicide and suicide. The physiological response of aversion is not nearly as strong, as if someone is strangling another person with their bare hands.

However, in some cases, even soldiers in combat freeze up and cannot pull the trigger, even when it means certain death for themselves. From the available evidence as it exists, on average, humans are not inherently pre-disposed to harm each other; quite the opposite.

Humans from an evolutionary standpoint lived in small groups, where survival of those healthy in the group was vital for the surival of the entire group. It's no wonder, that most do not have the innate tendency to kill another with their bare hands.

Society, culture, and the tools of harm and killing, have changed the equation, and have allowed us thousands of miles of separation from the natural averse physiological response, and the event of harm.

It raises the potential of participating in harm or killing of others, exponentially higher, from the distance that a trigger provides, to thousands of miles of separation, and an atomic bomb that kills a hundred thousand people.

The healthcare controversy is another example; while most would not withold access to healthcare for a gravely ill individual in one's household, if given a choice. Those same averse contigencies of harm, don't exist, when one supports an effort to withold it from someone outside of someone's home.

The circumstances that provides one a capability to participate in the killing of others, are more complex than ever, because of the separation of the act and the event of harm.

In the case of the young man that committed the crimes, it's not likely that he would have been successful or as successful with a knife or his bare hands.

The gun, if it was accessible in the grandfather's barn, made a difference, in the individual's lives that were killed. It might have been avoided if the gun was in a secure place. It would have been one less contigency of circumstance that lead to the capability of the young man to kill.

Well, I know I have some evil within me. I do think that bullying and domestic abuse can push people over the edge sometimes.

I'm not saying that everyone is capable of such a thing, but it is important to be aware of. Bullies, watch out! Lol, I'm joking, but seriously. Look at Lorena Bobbett. That lady was abused for years and eventually her husband got what he deserved. Okay, I am revealing my dark side now, I will admit it. I do have one.

But the majority of people who are abused inflict pain on themselves and NOT others. It is really very tragic. Abusers get away with murder in the metaphorical sense, but this is going off topic.

Again, not sure if this case revolves around bullying or not. This guy just sounds like a creep to me.

Only when a person has been pushed to that limit very specifically can they know whether they would or could commit murder. The reason I know is because I was pushed many times past that limit and didn't. If I was capable I would have and it really was horrible to go through. It's like seeing red but I just freeze and implode in the worst way. Situation where one is trapped and can't get out of a terrible situation. That's the only way a person can really know and that's the only reason I know.

I don't think anyone knows about the majority of people who are abused and what they do. Lots of people are abused and don't go on to abuse others. I don't know why these stereotypes annoy me. It's probably just people who know how to annoy and just want to. Sadists yes who are evil. I was tortured as a child and my life as an adult hasn't been much better and in some ways worse. Seems like I'm in a minority since everyone else appears to be clueless. And people think they're better than you, etc. I f**kin hate people and their stupidity and their passive-aggression, etc. If anyone could kill someone I should be able to and can't. I'd like to right at the moment though.

Word.

I know what you mean. I wish people would look outside their own stupid selfish boxes, get a grip, and and take in the reality of the suffering that so many people people experience, I wish they could experience it first hand so they could get a grip on their own cluelessness. But then I would be doing them harm myself. I suppose it is in their best interest to remain clueless, who knows. I just want to scream out at all the idiocy and cruelty in this world sometimes. But people will never understand unless they have experienced it firsthand.

That you have not yet encountered a situation that has driven you to murder doesn't mean it can never happen.

Also killing someone while insane isn't classed as murder, not over here anyway. Therefore the above comment is correct if you are having a full 'unzip'.

1) insanity is not a psychological term. It is a legal one. There is no entry for insane in the diagnostics manual.

2) Respectfully, I say BS.

I have found that Aspies tend to be terribly self aware... We may not completely understand why we have a specific limitation, quirk or twitch - but we are, as a general rule, absolutely aware of them in ourselves. I know what I am capable of and what I am not capable of. There are only two things that can motivate me to kill... defense of self and defense of a another and those are NOT murder...

I am more than capable of killing. While in the military I did it more than once. In all three of those situations, it was me or them. I did it without hesitation or remorse, and would do it again. I am not ashamed to admit it, either. In one instance - I actually enjoyed it.

I am not capable of cold blooded murder. Go read my previous posts... in my psychotic state, rage and logic dictated that the only solution was to kill the source of the cognitive dissonance. I was not capable of it.

Several state that "you just haven't met the criteria that would cause you to do this." Others state that we are nothing more than animals.

I will yield that I have the animalistic tendencies that mark our species, but I am more than an animal, I am not defined by my DNA. Every day of my existence is a testament to that. To paraphrase what they said on the Isle of Dr. Moreaux..."I am an Aspie." NTs may find the situation where they are left no cognitive option but to commit murder, but I am not limited to those options. You say that I have not encountered the situation in which I can be pushed to that point... I tell you now, you are right. I will concede that I may be capable of it in some horrific alternate universe in which I was raised differently and imprinted with different experiences, opinions and data, but I don't live in that universe - and there is nothing on this planet capable of pushing me past that point.

Once you have a psychotic break, come back and talk to me. I am not one to say "You have no idea," but I am saying it. Not as a way to tell you I have faced more hardship than you, but to say I have been forged in a crucible of rage and illogic the likes of which most will never see. I KNOW MY LIMITS...

Do you?

So, please stop speaking for EVERYONE and only speak for yourself. Please, for the love of schrodinger's cat, stop trying to project your imprint onto someone else.

So you insisted that I don't avoid the issue and even take the effort to bold it, which I respond to by answering your loaded question while you haven't returned the favour and answered my question yet. Hypocrite.

Were you addressing me or shartora there?

Murder is a legal term so it makes sense for insanity to be the yardstick by which the action is measured.

What is?



Where in my posting do I say in any sense that I am speaking for everyone? Or is that part of your psychological problem?

shartora. On page 2 he insisted that I answer his loaded question and not avoid the issue this time (There wasn't even a first time to begin with). I answer it and then I ask him a question on page 3 and he doesn't return the favour nor does he even address my posts after that. This is coming from a guy who was fanatically insistent that I don't avoid the issue. Hypocrisy at its finest.