Israel severs ties with UN Human Rights Council
29 Mar 2012, 1:51 pm
Raptor wrote:
You keep comparing apples to oranges but to humor you; no, I would not be in favor of one democrat having extraordinary power IN OUR CONGRESS. Democracy does not apply everywhere, though.
When each nation is paying the same then we'll talk democratic process.
Money talks!
When each nation is paying the same then we'll talk democratic process.
Money talks!
The more money someone makes the more money they contribute to the government. Under your money talks ideal Warren Buffet should hold a veto, seeing how he contributes far more money to the government and as such should have more power...
_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.
JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: 9 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
29 Mar 2012, 2:00 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I don't blame Israel for getting out of the UNHRC or anything else U.N.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Well crap they better exterminate all the non-jews as a preventative measure, then again that might make them look like nazis which would be ironic.
If they pose an immediate threat to Israel then IDF obviously has to do whatever to assure the
safety and survival of its citizens WITHOUT outside interference.
So you think if they want to start a holocaust against arabs they should have that right, if they deem it an appropriate way to prevent the destruction of their nation? At that point their nation might as well be destroyed because genocide is wrong. I mean I can see why people don't like the nation of Israel and its got nothing to do with it being a largely jewish nation try the way it operates...maybe.
Israel is not center the whole world revolves around....but sometimes it seems people view it that way.
First off, The IDF and Israeli leadership would not launch a full scale genocidal campaign against the "Arabs" which is a pretty general unspecifed group considering their are nations that surround Israel that are made up of Arabs but they aren't united.
Well I know that I was being hypothetical, and even if that did happen I don't imagine it would go on very long...before that nation gets well....destroyed.
Second, Yes..the reason Israel is hated by a lot of regimes is precisely because it is a Jewish nation...i don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept that anti-semitism did not die when Hitler killed himself in his bunker. It still persists as an idealogy in the third world and has been ingrained in post-colonial education systems because they see Zionism as an arm of " Jewish" financial interests meant to keep them in perpetual slavery...this was indoctrinated into their education systems in the third world due to their alignment with the Soviet Union. As someone who has gone to Israel numerous times I can say their is not one ounce of rational discussion within the Knesset or in normal political dialogue of eliminating Arabs. But sadly many of the regimes that surround Israel are made up of regimes that use the elimination of Israel as a means of legitimacy for their rule.
Also I am aware anti-semitism does still exist.......hell considering how many people in the U.S think a terrorist is anyone who looks middle eastern is rather anti-semitic considering the following dictionary definition.
Sem·ite noun
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
but anyways anti-semitism is not the only reason people dislike Israel......I dislike it because of the things I've read up on about it and the ongoing palistinian/israeli conflict. But I think it's stupid to hate people for their race and it seems both sides are guilty of that more or less.
Anti-semitism may technically include Arabs but its pretty common and was originally intended as a term to mean Judeao-phobia. But thats besides the point.
I know, I just find it ironic that more or less in Israel and Palestine its jews vs. arabs or vice versa, even though they're both semetic.
People who " dislike" Israel rarely every " dislike" the existense of other countries, and that is at the heart of the argument. You may disagree with the tactics used by the govt. but their are individuals, groups, and even political parties in countries that just HATE Israels very existence and utilize the fact its Jewish as a means of degrading it.
Ok well I just don't like how it seems to fall under the theocracy category.......why should there be christian nations, jewish nations, muslim nations or any other nations I mean why even bring up the religion thing in the first place. Not to mention I don't even like the system in my own country so why would I like the systems in the countries in the middle east.......from what I hear they are more oppressive, including in Israel as far as I know(but I'll have to review some of their laws and such).
Israel is not a theocracy. a Theocracy is a gov't that is ruled by religious priests and all aspects of the state are geared toward the promotion of their God and religion. Israel is a Republic. A Jewish theocracy existed 2000 years ago in Judaea, when the Temple stood and the High Priest was often times the King himself. Today, Israel has a body called the Knesset which is democratically elected from all aspects of Israeli society. A Prime minister is elected from that as well. Also, being Jewish is not just a religious category but also an Ethnic one. Its pretty commonly known that being a Jew is defined differently than a Christian or a Muslim in the sense of what defines one as a Jew. Alot of that definition was internally defined by Jews themselves and surrounding nations which isolated Jews for 2000 years.
Also I think the formation of the modern Israel was just a little messed up, I mean France, England and the U.S(I think it was, maybe just England and the U.S) but anyways they did not exactly have the right transport a bunch of people to another country and declare it their nation regardless of who's already there.......and I would say the same thing even if the people who where relocated there where not Jewish . Seems kinda negligent on the part of the allies who won WW2 I mean no crap that was probably going to create violent conflict.
Your history is way off here...Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948 out of thin air. The foundations of the state were being built up from the 1880s onwards. I highly recommend you pick up a History of Israel book to get an indepth knowledge of it. England, France, and the U.S did not just transport people to Israel, thats not how refugees got there. Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control. I can't discuss this with you if you don't have the history of the country correct, because you understandly don't have the knowledge on this topic, which is not a put down. Like I said, i suggest researching for a good indepth historical study of Israel....Benny Morris is good.
Kind of like when the natives tried defending their land against the european settlers who decided to make america their own? though theres not an ongoing violent conflict really there are still hard feelings I am sure.
29 Mar 2012, 2:01 pm
abacacus wrote:
Raptor wrote:
You keep comparing apples to oranges but to humor you; no, I would not be in favor of one democrat having extraordinary power IN OUR CONGRESS. Democracy does not apply everywhere, though.
When each nation is paying the same then we'll talk democratic process.
Money talks!
When each nation is paying the same then we'll talk democratic process.
Money talks!
The more money someone makes the more money they contribute to the government. Under your money talks ideal Warren Buffet should hold a veto, seeing how he contributes far more money to the government and as such should have more power...
Yeah sure whatever. The US is the UN and the UN is the US.
JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: 9 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
29 Mar 2012, 2:02 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I don't blame Israel for getting out of the UNHRC or anything else U.N.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Well crap they better exterminate all the non-jews as a preventative measure, then again that might make them look like nazis which would be ironic.
If they pose an immediate threat to Israel then IDF obviously has to do whatever to assure the
safety and survival of its citizens WITHOUT outside interference.
So you think if they want to start a holocaust against arabs they should have that right, if they deem it an appropriate way to prevent the destruction of their nation? At that point their nation might as well be destroyed because genocide is wrong. I mean I can see why people don't like the nation of Israel and its got nothing to do with it being a largely jewish nation try the way it operates...maybe.
Israel is not center the whole world revolves around....but sometimes it seems people view it that way.
First off, The IDF and Israeli leadership would not launch a full scale genocidal campaign against the "Arabs" which is a pretty general unspecifed group considering their are nations that surround Israel that are made up of Arabs but they aren't united.
Well I know that I was being hypothetical, and even if that did happen I don't imagine it would go on very long...before that nation gets well....destroyed.
Second, Yes..the reason Israel is hated by a lot of regimes is precisely because it is a Jewish nation...i don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept that anti-semitism did not die when Hitler killed himself in his bunker. It still persists as an idealogy in the third world and has been ingrained in post-colonial education systems because they see Zionism as an arm of " Jewish" financial interests meant to keep them in perpetual slavery...this was indoctrinated into their education systems in the third world due to their alignment with the Soviet Union. As someone who has gone to Israel numerous times I can say their is not one ounce of rational discussion within the Knesset or in normal political dialogue of eliminating Arabs. But sadly many of the regimes that surround Israel are made up of regimes that use the elimination of Israel as a means of legitimacy for their rule.
Also I am aware anti-semitism does still exist.......hell considering how many people in the U.S think a terrorist is anyone who looks middle eastern is rather anti-semitic considering the following dictionary definition.
Sem·ite noun
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
but anyways anti-semitism is not the only reason people dislike Israel......I dislike it because of the things I've read up on about it and the ongoing palistinian/israeli conflict. But I think it's stupid to hate people for their race and it seems both sides are guilty of that more or less.
Anti-semitism may technically include Arabs but its pretty common and was originally intended as a term to mean Judeao-phobia. But thats besides the point.
I know, I just find it ironic that more or less in Israel and Palestine its jews vs. arabs or vice versa, even though they're both semetic.
People who " dislike" Israel rarely every " dislike" the existense of other countries, and that is at the heart of the argument. You may disagree with the tactics used by the govt. but their are individuals, groups, and even political parties in countries that just HATE Israels very existence and utilize the fact its Jewish as a means of degrading it.
Ok well I just don't like how it seems to fall under the theocracy category.......why should there be christian nations, jewish nations, muslim nations or any other nations I mean why even bring up the religion thing in the first place. Not to mention I don't even like the system in my own country so why would I like the systems in the countries in the middle east.......from what I hear they are more oppressive, including in Israel as far as I know(but I'll have to review some of their laws and such).
Also I think the formation of the modern Israel was just a little messed up, I mean France, England and the U.S(I think it was, maybe just England and the U.S) but anyways they did not exactly have the right transport a bunch of people to another country and declare it their nation regardless of who's already there.......and I would say the same thing even if the people who where relocated there where not Jewish . Seems kinda negligent on the part of the allies who won WW2 I mean no crap that was probably going to create violent conflict.
.
Israel is not a theocracy. a Theocracy is a gov't that is ruled by religious priests and all aspects of the state are geared toward the promotion of their God and religion. Israel is a Republic. A Jewish theocracy existed 2000 years ago in Judaea, when the Temple stood and the High Priest was often times the King himself. Today, Israel has a body called the Knesset which is democratically elected from all aspects of Israeli society. A Prime minister is elected from that as well. Also, being Jewish is not just a religious category but also an Ethnic one. Its pretty commonly known that being a Jew is defined differently than a Christian or a Muslim in the sense of what defines one as a Jew. Alot of that definition was internally defined by Jews themselves and surrounding nations which isolated Jews for 2000 years.
Your history is way off here...Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948 out of thin air. The foundations of the state were being built up from the 1880s onwards. I highly recommend you pick up a History of Israel book to get an indepth knowledge of it. England, France, and the U.S did not just transport people to Israel, thats not how refugees got there. Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control. I can't discuss this with you if you don't have the history of the country correct, because you understandly don't have the knowledge on this topic, which is not a put down. Like I said, i suggest researching for a good indepth historical study of Israel....Benny Morris is good.
Kind of like when the natives tried defending their land against the european settlers who decided to make america their own? though theres not an ongoing violent conflict really there are still hard feelings I am sure
29 Mar 2012, 2:59 pm
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control.
Eddie Izzard wrote:
We stole countries with the cunning use of flags! Yeah, just sail around the world and stick a flag in.
"I claim India for Britain!"
They go, "You can't claim us, we live here! 500 million of us!"
"Do you have a flag?"
"We don't need a bloody flag! It's our country, you bastards!"
"No flag, no country, you can't have one! That's the rules that I've just made up!"
"I claim India for Britain!"
They go, "You can't claim us, we live here! 500 million of us!"
"Do you have a flag?"
"We don't need a bloody flag! It's our country, you bastards!"
"No flag, no country, you can't have one! That's the rules that I've just made up!"
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
29 Mar 2012, 3:03 pm
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I don't blame Israel for getting out of the UNHRC or anything else U.N.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Well crap they better exterminate all the non-jews as a preventative measure, then again that might make them look like nazis which would be ironic.
If they pose an immediate threat to Israel then IDF obviously has to do whatever to assure the
safety and survival of its citizens WITHOUT outside interference.
So you think if they want to start a holocaust against arabs they should have that right, if they deem it an appropriate way to prevent the destruction of their nation? At that point their nation might as well be destroyed because genocide is wrong. I mean I can see why people don't like the nation of Israel and its got nothing to do with it being a largely jewish nation try the way it operates...maybe.
Israel is not center the whole world revolves around....but sometimes it seems people view it that way.
First off, The IDF and Israeli leadership would not launch a full scale genocidal campaign against the "Arabs" which is a pretty general unspecifed group considering their are nations that surround Israel that are made up of Arabs but they aren't united.
Well I know that I was being hypothetical, and even if that did happen I don't imagine it would go on very long...before that nation gets well....destroyed.
Second, Yes..the reason Israel is hated by a lot of regimes is precisely because it is a Jewish nation...i don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept that anti-semitism did not die when Hitler killed himself in his bunker. It still persists as an idealogy in the third world and has been ingrained in post-colonial education systems because they see Zionism as an arm of " Jewish" financial interests meant to keep them in perpetual slavery...this was indoctrinated into their education systems in the third world due to their alignment with the Soviet Union. As someone who has gone to Israel numerous times I can say their is not one ounce of rational discussion within the Knesset or in normal political dialogue of eliminating Arabs. But sadly many of the regimes that surround Israel are made up of regimes that use the elimination of Israel as a means of legitimacy for their rule.
Also I am aware anti-semitism does still exist.......hell considering how many people in the U.S think a terrorist is anyone who looks middle eastern is rather anti-semitic considering the following dictionary definition.
Sem·ite noun
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
but anyways anti-semitism is not the only reason people dislike Israel......I dislike it because of the things I've read up on about it and the ongoing palistinian/israeli conflict. But I think it's stupid to hate people for their race and it seems both sides are guilty of that more or less.
Anti-semitism may technically include Arabs but its pretty common and was originally intended as a term to mean Judeao-phobia. But thats besides the point.
I know, I just find it ironic that more or less in Israel and Palestine its jews vs. arabs or vice versa, even though they're both semetic.
People who " dislike" Israel rarely every " dislike" the existense of other countries, and that is at the heart of the argument. You may disagree with the tactics used by the govt. but their are individuals, groups, and even political parties in countries that just HATE Israels very existence and utilize the fact its Jewish as a means of degrading it.
Ok well I just don't like how it seems to fall under the theocracy category.......why should there be christian nations, jewish nations, muslim nations or any other nations I mean why even bring up the religion thing in the first place. Not to mention I don't even like the system in my own country so why would I like the systems in the countries in the middle east.......from what I hear they are more oppressive, including in Israel as far as I know(but I'll have to review some of their laws and such).
Israel is not a theocracy. a Theocracy is a gov't that is ruled by religious priests and all aspects of the state are geared toward the promotion of their God and religion. Israel is a Republic. A Jewish theocracy existed 2000 years ago in Judaea, when the Temple stood and the High Priest was often times the King himself. Today, Israel has a body called the Knesset which is democratically elected from all aspects of Israeli society. A Prime minister is elected from that as well. Also, being Jewish is not just a religious category but also an Ethnic one. Its pretty commonly known that being a Jew is defined differently than a Christian or a Muslim in the sense of what defines one as a Jew. Alot of that definition was internally defined by Jews themselves and surrounding nations which isolated Jews for 2000 years.
Also I think the formation of the modern Israel was just a little messed up, I mean France, England and the U.S(I think it was, maybe just England and the U.S) but anyways they did not exactly have the right transport a bunch of people to another country and declare it their nation regardless of who's already there.......and I would say the same thing even if the people who where relocated there where not Jewish . Seems kinda negligent on the part of the allies who won WW2 I mean no crap that was probably going to create violent conflict.
Your history is way off here...Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948 out of thin air. The foundations of the state were being built up from the 1880s onwards. I highly recommend you pick up a History of Israel book to get an indepth knowledge of it. England, France, and the U.S did not just transport people to Israel, thats not how refugees got there. Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control. I can't discuss this with you if you don't have the history of the country correct, because you understandly don't have the knowledge on this topic, which is not a put down. Like I said, i suggest researching for a good indepth historical study of Israel....Benny Morris is good.
Kind of like when the natives tried defending their land against the european settlers who decided to make america their own? though theres not an ongoing violent conflict really there are still hard feelings I am sure.
The muslim nations are ran by religious priests? maybe you and I have a different idea of what a theocracy is than....also I was simplifying the history I know Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948. I know its more complex then that but I still disagree with the way it was done...it seems like it should have been obvious to the allies why it might have lead to some on-going conflict in the area.
_________________
We won't go back.
JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: 9 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
29 Mar 2012, 3:09 pm
Declension wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control.
Eddie Izzard wrote:
We stole countries with the cunning use of flags! Yeah, just sail around the world and stick a flag in.
"I claim India for Britain!"
They go, "You can't claim us, we live here! 500 million of us!"
"Do you have a flag?"
"We don't need a bloody flag! It's our country, you bastards!"
"No flag, no country, you can't have one! That's the rules that I've just made up!"
"I claim India for Britain!"
They go, "You can't claim us, we live here! 500 million of us!"
"Do you have a flag?"
"We don't need a bloody flag! It's our country, you bastards!"
"No flag, no country, you can't have one! That's the rules that I've just made up!"
Well if you want to be precise by that definition, virtually every country on this planet was formed along exactly those lines if you want to be truthful with History. Possibly every country in the Western Hemisphere should send back its current occupants to their native countries because their were others who lived on that land back than. Reality is that unlike the British/India relationship which was direct foreign takeover of a foreign nation, the region of Palestine was never a defined political entity ever..it was always a sub-regional unit under either the Ottoman Empire, or a part of a broader Abbasid territorial unit. Also the inhabitants of what is now Palestine never really had a substantial nationalism to think of themselves as a seperate nation until really they saw the success that Zionism as a political idealogy was having from the 1920s onwards. Much difference in comparisons there.
JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: 9 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
29 Mar 2012, 3:13 pm
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I don't blame Israel for getting out of the UNHRC or anything else U.N.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Well crap they better exterminate all the non-jews as a preventative measure, then again that might make them look like nazis which would be ironic.
If they pose an immediate threat to Israel then IDF obviously has to do whatever to assure the
safety and survival of its citizens WITHOUT outside interference.
So you think if they want to start a holocaust against arabs they should have that right, if they deem it an appropriate way to prevent the destruction of their nation? At that point their nation might as well be destroyed because genocide is wrong. I mean I can see why people don't like the nation of Israel and its got nothing to do with it being a largely jewish nation try the way it operates...maybe.
Israel is not center the whole world revolves around....but sometimes it seems people view it that way.
First off, The IDF and Israeli leadership would not launch a full scale genocidal campaign against the "Arabs" which is a pretty general unspecifed group considering their are nations that surround Israel that are made up of Arabs but they aren't united.
Well I know that I was being hypothetical, and even if that did happen I don't imagine it would go on very long...before that nation gets well....destroyed.
Second, Yes..the reason Israel is hated by a lot of regimes is precisely because it is a Jewish nation...i don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept that anti-semitism did not die when Hitler killed himself in his bunker. It still persists as an idealogy in the third world and has been ingrained in post-colonial education systems because they see Zionism as an arm of " Jewish" financial interests meant to keep them in perpetual slavery...this was indoctrinated into their education systems in the third world due to their alignment with the Soviet Union. As someone who has gone to Israel numerous times I can say their is not one ounce of rational discussion within the Knesset or in normal political dialogue of eliminating Arabs. But sadly many of the regimes that surround Israel are made up of regimes that use the elimination of Israel as a means of legitimacy for their rule.
Also I am aware anti-semitism does still exist.......hell considering how many people in the U.S think a terrorist is anyone who looks middle eastern is rather anti-semitic considering the following dictionary definition.
Sem·ite noun
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
but anyways anti-semitism is not the only reason people dislike Israel......I dislike it because of the things I've read up on about it and the ongoing palistinian/israeli conflict. But I think it's stupid to hate people for their race and it seems both sides are guilty of that more or less.
Anti-semitism may technically include Arabs but its pretty common and was originally intended as a term to mean Judeao-phobia. But thats besides the point.
I know, I just find it ironic that more or less in Israel and Palestine its jews vs. arabs or vice versa, even though they're both semetic.
People who " dislike" Israel rarely every " dislike" the existense of other countries, and that is at the heart of the argument. You may disagree with the tactics used by the govt. but their are individuals, groups, and even political parties in countries that just HATE Israels very existence and utilize the fact its Jewish as a means of degrading it.
Ok well I just don't like how it seems to fall under the theocracy category.......why should there be christian nations, jewish nations, muslim nations or any other nations I mean why even bring up the religion thing in the first place. Not to mention I don't even like the system in my own country so why would I like the systems in the countries in the middle east.......from what I hear they are more oppressive, including in Israel as far as I know(but I'll have to review some of their laws and such).
Israel is not a theocracy. a Theocracy is a gov't that is ruled by religious priests and all aspects of the state are geared toward the promotion of their God and religion. Israel is a Republic. A Jewish theocracy existed 2000 years ago in Judaea, when the Temple stood and the High Priest was often times the King himself. Today, Israel has a body called the Knesset which is democratically elected from all aspects of Israeli society. A Prime minister is elected from that as well. Also, being Jewish is not just a religious category but also an Ethnic one. Its pretty commonly known that being a Jew is defined differently than a Christian or a Muslim in the sense of what defines one as a Jew. Alot of that definition was internally defined by Jews themselves and surrounding nations which isolated Jews for 2000 years.
Also I think the formation of the modern Israel was just a little messed up, I mean France, England and the U.S(I think it was, maybe just England and the U.S) but anyways they did not exactly have the right transport a bunch of people to another country and declare it their nation regardless of who's already there.......and I would say the same thing even if the people who where relocated there where not Jewish . Seems kinda negligent on the part of the allies who won WW2 I mean no crap that was probably going to create violent conflict.
Your history is way off here...Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948 out of thin air. The foundations of the state were being built up from the 1880s onwards. I highly recommend you pick up a History of Israel book to get an indepth knowledge of it. England, France, and the U.S did not just transport people to Israel, thats not how refugees got there. Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control. I can't discuss this with you if you don't have the history of the country correct, because you understandly don't have the knowledge on this topic, which is not a put down. Like I said, i suggest researching for a good indepth historical study of Israel....Benny Morris is good.
Kind of like when the natives tried defending their land against the european settlers who decided to make america their own? though theres not an ongoing violent conflict really there are still hard feelings I am sure.
The muslim nations are ran by religious priests? maybe you and I have a different idea of what a theocracy is than....also I was simplifying the history I know Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948. I know its more complex then that but I still disagree with the way it was done...it seems like it should have been obvious to the allies why it might have lead to some on-going conflict in the area.
No, I never said that muslim nations are a theocracy. Their are certain Muslim countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia which are theocracies but not all of them. Tunisia and Libya are now transitional republics in name. Morocco is a Monarchy. Bahrain and Qatar are Monarchies I believe. Theocracy actually has a solid definition, as a form of Govt. The Allies in 1948 didn't create Israel. The Jews in the British Mandate decided to declare for statehood. The US, Britain, and France had nothing at all to do with the desire for Israel to exist, and i think the issue was permantly settled with the Partition vote in 1947 which succeeded. But one party would not have it, the Arab League, and their supporters ( Egypt, Syria, Jordan) in the Muslim world who decided to declare war. Its not Israels fault it won the war and acquired more territory as a result.
29 Mar 2012, 3:44 pm
abacacus wrote:
So instead of "money talks" it's "money talks when I want it to talk" 
I wonder if Raptor would still be saying this if the US was surpassed in UN financial influence by China. I'm sure he would be preaching equal representation if that were the case
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
29 Mar 2012, 3:59 pm
double post
_________________
We won't go back.
Last edited by Sweetleaf on 29 Mar 2012, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,477
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
29 Mar 2012, 4:10 pm
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I don't blame Israel for getting out of the UNHRC or anything else U.N.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Their location in the world, the middle east if you haven't noticed, isn't real big on human rights in the first place. If they have to take the gloves off to deal with the people that would exterminate them all at the first opportunity then so be it.
You do what you have to do, plain and simple.
If I had it my way the U.S. would be out of the U.N. and the U.N. would be out of the U.S.
Well crap they better exterminate all the non-jews as a preventative measure, then again that might make them look like nazis which would be ironic.
If they pose an immediate threat to Israel then IDF obviously has to do whatever to assure the
safety and survival of its citizens WITHOUT outside interference.
So you think if they want to start a holocaust against arabs they should have that right, if they deem it an appropriate way to prevent the destruction of their nation? At that point their nation might as well be destroyed because genocide is wrong. I mean I can see why people don't like the nation of Israel and its got nothing to do with it being a largely jewish nation try the way it operates...maybe.
Israel is not center the whole world revolves around....but sometimes it seems people view it that way.
First off, The IDF and Israeli leadership would not launch a full scale genocidal campaign against the "Arabs" which is a pretty general unspecifed group considering their are nations that surround Israel that are made up of Arabs but they aren't united.
Well I know that I was being hypothetical, and even if that did happen I don't imagine it would go on very long...before that nation gets well....destroyed.
Second, Yes..the reason Israel is hated by a lot of regimes is precisely because it is a Jewish nation...i don't understand why some people can't grasp the concept that anti-semitism did not die when Hitler killed himself in his bunker. It still persists as an idealogy in the third world and has been ingrained in post-colonial education systems because they see Zionism as an arm of " Jewish" financial interests meant to keep them in perpetual slavery...this was indoctrinated into their education systems in the third world due to their alignment with the Soviet Union. As someone who has gone to Israel numerous times I can say their is not one ounce of rational discussion within the Knesset or in normal political dialogue of eliminating Arabs. But sadly many of the regimes that surround Israel are made up of regimes that use the elimination of Israel as a means of legitimacy for their rule.
Also I am aware anti-semitism does still exist.......hell considering how many people in the U.S think a terrorist is anyone who looks middle eastern is rather anti-semitic considering the following dictionary definition.
Sem·ite noun
Definition of Semite
1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples
2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
but anyways anti-semitism is not the only reason people dislike Israel......I dislike it because of the things I've read up on about it and the ongoing palistinian/israeli conflict. But I think it's stupid to hate people for their race and it seems both sides are guilty of that more or less.
Anti-semitism may technically include Arabs but its pretty common and was originally intended as a term to mean Judeao-phobia. But thats besides the point.
I know, I just find it ironic that more or less in Israel and Palestine its jews vs. arabs or vice versa, even though they're both semetic.
People who " dislike" Israel rarely every " dislike" the existense of other countries, and that is at the heart of the argument. You may disagree with the tactics used by the govt. but their are individuals, groups, and even political parties in countries that just HATE Israels very existence and utilize the fact its Jewish as a means of degrading it.
Ok well I just don't like how it seems to fall under the theocracy category.......why should there be christian nations, jewish nations, muslim nations or any other nations I mean why even bring up the religion thing in the first place. Not to mention I don't even like the system in my own country so why would I like the systems in the countries in the middle east.......from what I hear they are more oppressive, including in Israel as far as I know(but I'll have to review some of their laws and such).
Israel is not a theocracy. a Theocracy is a gov't that is ruled by religious priests and all aspects of the state are geared toward the promotion of their God and religion. Israel is a Republic. A Jewish theocracy existed 2000 years ago in Judaea, when the Temple stood and the High Priest was often times the King himself. Today, Israel has a body called the Knesset which is democratically elected from all aspects of Israeli society. A Prime minister is elected from that as well. Also, being Jewish is not just a religious category but also an Ethnic one. Its pretty commonly known that being a Jew is defined differently than a Christian or a Muslim in the sense of what defines one as a Jew. Alot of that definition was internally defined by Jews themselves and surrounding nations which isolated Jews for 2000 years.
Also I think the formation of the modern Israel was just a little messed up, I mean France, England and the U.S(I think it was, maybe just England and the U.S) but anyways they did not exactly have the right transport a bunch of people to another country and declare it their nation regardless of who's already there.......and I would say the same thing even if the people who where relocated there where not Jewish . Seems kinda negligent on the part of the allies who won WW2 I mean no crap that was probably going to create violent conflict.
Your history is way off here...Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948 out of thin air. The foundations of the state were being built up from the 1880s onwards. I highly recommend you pick up a History of Israel book to get an indepth knowledge of it. England, France, and the U.S did not just transport people to Israel, thats not how refugees got there. Their was also NO nation that existed on that land prior to 1948. It was a part of the British Mandate which previously was under the Ottoman Empires control. I can't discuss this with you if you don't have the history of the country correct, because you understandly don't have the knowledge on this topic, which is not a put down. Like I said, i suggest researching for a good indepth historical study of Israel....Benny Morris is good.
Kind of like when the natives tried defending their land against the european settlers who decided to make america their own? though theres not an ongoing violent conflict really there are still hard feelings I am sure.
The muslim nations are ran by religious priests? maybe you and I have a different idea of what a theocracy is than....also I was simplifying the history I know Israel did not just suddenly pop up in 1948. I know its more complex then that but I still disagree with the way it was done...it seems like it should have been obvious to the allies why it might have lead to some on-going conflict in the area.
No, I never said that muslim nations are a theocracy. Their are certain Muslim countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia which are theocracies but not all of them. Tunisia and Libya are now transitional republics in name. Morocco is a Monarchy. Bahrain and Qatar are Monarchies I believe. Theocracy actually has a solid definition, as a form of Govt. The Allies in 1948 didn't create Israel. The Jews in the British Mandate decided to declare for statehood. The US, Britain, and France had nothing at all to do with the desire for Israel to exist, and i think the issue was permantly settled with the Partition vote in 1947 which succeeded. But one party would not have it, the Arab League, and their supporters ( Egypt, Syria, Jordan) in the Muslim world who decided to declare war. Its not Israels fault it won the war and acquired more territory as a result.
I consider muslim nations theocracies, considering how much of a role religion plays in their government and laws...maybe Israel is not as much of a theorcracy but what is the point in anyone referring to it as a Jewish Nation if its not a theocracy at all. Or maybe people inaccurately describe it that way.
Also I did not say they did create Israel, but if I am not mistaking they did play a role in the formation of modern day Israel...I guess I'd have to go back and look into all the specifics to remember exactly how the whole thing happened. Also fighting over land is pretty stupid if you ask me which is why I think both sides should get the hell over it and create a two state solution and quit shooting at each other for f***s sake......but that's a dream that will probably never happen because its so much better for people to kill each other over a thousand year old grudge or whatever.
I mean I feel sorry for the children growing up in both Israel and Palestine because instead of being taught useful things they probably just get taught how evil the other side is...so that more hatred is bred. I mean Israeli children get to grow up and kill palestinians, palestinians get to grow up and attempt to sometimes kill Israelis....but should they hit anyone all hell falls upon Palestine and they send tanks and heavily armed troops to subdue what likely amounts to a couple terrorists hiding in a bunch of civilians whos lives Israel totally disregards all in the name of fighting terrorists or whatever. I mean how are things going to change if the palestinians remain subject to terrible living conditions and violence at the hands of Israel which obviously is going to create more hard feelings towards Israel.
_________________
We won't go back.
29 Mar 2012, 4:32 pm
Vigilans wrote:
abacacus wrote:
So instead of "money talks" it's "money talks when I want it to talk"
I wonder if Raptor would still be saying this if the US was surpassed in UN financial influence by China. I'm sure he would be preaching equal representation if that were the case
Yes Raptor would because money still talks and bullsh1t still walks.
Raptor might not like it but that's beside the point.
29 Mar 2012, 4:36 pm
Jingoism is something I find extremely comical to watch from the sidelines
_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do
29 Mar 2012, 8:38 pm
Vigilans wrote:
Jingoism is something I find extremely comical to watch from the sidelines
I can't tell for sure who that was meant for but I for one take a great deal of pride in being patriotic, even to the point you would consider fanatical.
Raptors are nothing if not thorough.
| Similar Topics | |
|---|---|
| Grotesque Human Rights Scandal Happening To Autistic People |
05 Apr 2024, 7:25 am |
| Israeli evidence of UNRWA Hamas ties Flimsy |
07 Feb 2024, 3:13 pm |
| White nationalist wins Oklahoma council election |
19 Mar 2024, 3:45 pm |
| Israel and the International Criminal Court |
13 Feb 2024, 5:01 pm |
