Coup d'etat in Paraguay

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Kjas
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23 Jun 2012, 3:01 am

http://news.yahoo.com/outcry-latin-america-paraguay-leader-ousted-041347959.html

Yet again... the coups still continue.

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xenon13
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25 Jun 2012, 5:42 pm

This is the most egregious abuse of a country's impeachment process that I have ever heard of. Some claim that when Yeltsin was impeached this was a wrongful and political decision but they forget that the parliament that did this also was allied to him and gave him dictatorial powers! It impeached Yeltsin after Yeltsin illegally "dissolved" the parliament. Yeltsin naturally did not leave office and sent out the tanks to blow up parliament to the cheers of the Western media and powers.

Jacoby
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25 Jun 2012, 6:46 pm

Not sure why it's a coup if they're working within their constitution, granted I don't know who's fingers are in this. It's not even like in Honduras where the military literally removed the president from the country. I'm not sure if it's at all warranted but I don't think it's grossly illegal at least on the surface. They voted to impeach the president and remove him from office and Lugo accepted the ruling while disagreeing with it obviously.

Hopefully the US isn't involved and won't get involved going forward.

HisDivineMajesty
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25 Jun 2012, 9:16 pm

I'm not sure why this is called a coup d'état. Perhaps it's different in Paraguay, but our parliament votes coalition governments out every two to three years on average, then gives them a few months to organise elections. Some reasons for voting them out included 'one coalition party disagreed with a minister', 'there were more liberals in government than there were in parliament', and 'two ministers from the same party were arguing and really hated each other'. As long as it's an elected parliament voting someone out someone for a legitimate reason, I can't see why the rest of South America is so upset.

Pyrite
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25 Jun 2012, 9:43 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Impeachment is meant to lead to a trial before parliament, and trials, as legal proceedings, are open to criticism on grounds of due process, which is the objection being leveled here.

Quote:

As the outcry over the deadly clash continued, the liberal party announced Thursday that it was withdrawing its support of Lugo, and an impeachment vote was heard in the lower chamber of Congress that day. The vote in favor of impeachment was 76-1.
The next day, Lugo's defense team had two hours to defend Lugo from what it called vague charges of incompetence. The Senate impeached the president in a 39-4 vote.

....

Quote:

The Mexican Foreign Ministry and Chavez of Venezuela said the speed with which Lugo was removed didn't give him time to mount a proper defense.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/25/world/ame ... index.html

That said, I don't think the "trial" in a presidential impeachment is generally that important, it always comes down to politics rather than merit (I think this was the case with Johnson in the U.S.), in this case they just skipped the judicial pretense in a very blatant way.

You'd think they would have subpoenaed relevant documents to serve as evidence in regard to whatever the charge was if it was really solid though. I don't see why there was such a rush.

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Jacoby
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26 Jun 2012, 12:52 am

I have to imagine his own political party turned against him if the vote was 76-1 an 39-4

ruveyn
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26 Jun 2012, 1:54 am

Was there a breach of law in Paraguay?

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Kjas
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26 Jun 2012, 4:35 am

Quote:

All three other full Mercosur members have reacted with alarm to Lugo's removal, denouncing the fact that the Senate's impeachment trial lasted well under five hours, giving the president little to no time to mount a defense, in a move that was condemned as undemocratic. Brazil and Argentina announced they were calling their ambassadors home and Uruguay expressed concern.

Lugo was elected four years ago, ending 61 years of rule by the Colorado Party, on promises of agrarian reform to help the country's many poor and landless people, but his allies increasingly turned against him in recent years.

Ultimately, a deadly clash this month between police and landless protesters cost Lugo all but a handful of votes in both legislative houses.

Police were attempting to evict about 150 farmers from a remote forest reserve that is part of a large estate. Six police officers, including the brother of Lugo's chief of security, and 11 farmers died in the clash.

Lugo's opponents blamed the president. Advocates for the farmers say the landowner, a Colorado Party politician, had used his influence to get the land from the state decades ago, and say it should have been put to use for land reform.

The president also was tried on four other accusations, including that he improperly allowed leftist parties to hold a political meeting in an army base in 2009; that he let about 3,000 squatters illegally invade a large Brazilian-owned soybean farm; that his government failed to capture members of a guerrilla group, and that he signed an international protocol without properly submitting it to Congress for approval.

Mostly trumped up and non-serious charges that could have been dealt with diplomatically like every other time stuff like this happens in LA. The fact
that they didn't even attempt to do that says it all.

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Jacoby
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26 Jun 2012, 10:53 am

I read a couple articles on it last night, apparently Lugo had angered members of his own ruling coalition from the very start of his administration and his reaction to this 'land invasion' shootout was the straw that broke the camel's back. The Liberal Party which made up the largest part of his coalition of left leaning parties supported impeachment and that's why it was passed by such large margins. While politically motivated, I don't think it's illegal or constitutes being called a coup.

xenon13
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08 Jul 2012, 1:39 pm

Well, well, well... U.S. condemns Romanian leftist coalition's attempt to impeach right wing president

The State Department said "As the government contemplates the serious step of removing Romania's head of state, we urge that the process be conducted in a fully fair and transparent manner, with scrupulous respect for the rule of law and democratic ideals."

DC
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08 Jul 2012, 2:59 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

I can't see why the rest of South America is so upset.

It seems like a much better system than Italy, where you become prime minister to avoid prosecution...

cecilfienkelstien
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10 Jul 2012, 3:58 pm

DC wrote:

HisDivineMajesty wrote:

I can't see why the rest of South America is so upset.

It seems like a much better system than Italy, where you become prime minister to avoid prosecution...

I can't believe it took Italy this long to get rid of Berlisconi. I think it is amazing that he got a law passed that said he was unimpeachable.
Lugo of Paraguay was democratly elected. His congress should respect that.
I am from Canada. My Prime Minister is Stephen Harper of the Conservative Party of Canada. I disagree with almost all of his policies. I did not vote for his party and I never will. But say what I will about him but he was fairly elected. I hope a left leaning pary either the NDP or the Liberals can defeat him.

xenon13
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13 Jul 2012, 6:46 pm

South America is upset because they see it for what it is; a coup d'etat and most of South America is run by the sorts of leaders who are similar targets. They were not selected by the traditional elite.

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