Indonesians about to shoot two Australian drug traffickers

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OK I don't like drug traffickers, particularly those who smuggle heroin, but this is a case of two Australian drug traffickers who the Australian Federal Police dobbed into the Indonesians 10 years ago and had them arrested Bali's international airport heading back to Australia. Sentenced to death the two Australians have spent the last 10 year at Bali's jail, one becoming a pastor preaching to his fellow prisoners, while the other has become a talented painter. For all intends an purposes, they have rehabilitated themselves.
A new Indonesian president is elected and proposes to make an example of all convicted drug traffickers sentenced to death. The first batch was executed a few weeks ago and now it is the next turn of the two Australian to face an Indonesian firing squad. The Australian government has made presentations to the Indonesian government to prevent the killings. The Australian public is galvanised in it's disgust with Indonesia's determination to carry out the executions.
It seems the new Indonesian president is in a weak position of having to carry out the executions to strengthen his position with his backers. The police and army are arguing with each other over who has the greater responsibility in executing the two Australians. As a result we had a comical situation of a huge military presence at Bali's jail where the two Australians were handcuffed and escorted by the military into a car to take them the island where they will be executed.
I'm all for capital punishment in extreme circumstances but this is clearly an example to me of politics being played out at the expense of wasted human life. What is the point of all this if one Indonesian president didn't deem it necessary to execute two drug traffickers but the incoming president, who seems to need to prop up support for his government, does deem it necessary to kill the Australians. What if another Indonesian president had been elected. Would he have carried out the executions? It just seems all unnecessary to me with dirty politics being played out by governments purely for political advantage at the expense of human beings. Another example of this was the assassination of the Russian opposition leader and the condemnation of the killing by the Russian government, when in all probability it was the Russian government who carried out the killing.

There was recently a similar case where they executed a Dutch person. I think countries should be very careful with executing foreigners, especially foreigners from a country where they are against the death penalty. Dutch diplomats asked them to postpone the execution but they did it anyway, they just deliberately want to be jerks to the rest of the world. Executing people for something as trivial as drug trafficking is something only savages can come up with.
The country is run by barbarians. And if a president can become more popular by executing people for things like this then the population are a bunch of bloodthirsty idiots as well.
They even have their crazy Islamic law s**t going on in Aceh, the fools.

I really don't give a toss if they channeled mother theresa while in prison. The damage these people have done is incalculable and I do not see a single reason why they should not face the consequences of their choices and actions.

Its a simple logic: They knew Indonesia had a death penalty for selling drugs. They CHOSE to do it anyway. Case closed.

Now, when it comes to the case of that british woman who claims she was forced into carrying drugs because her family was threatened, is a major mess and screwup given the fact that she not only cooperated with the authorities to catch the people she claimed had coerced her but also apparently there has been evidence of said coercion...but the indonesian judge and judicial system just seemed interested in executing a high profile case involving a foreigner as a warning to others.

But these two guys who knew about it and did it anyway? Not just once but apparently had been doing it for some time? 9.9 years too late to put them against the wall I'd say. No sympathy from me.

There is a similar situation going on with a Brazilian drug trafficker arrested in 2005. Aparently, after unsuccessful (and unnecessary, I think) attempts of diplomacy to get the criminal deported back here, he is now trying the good old insanity defense. Supposedly, he has schizophrenia and Indonesian law does not allow death penalty for criminals not sound of mind.

I think it is the criminals' fault. If they wanted to break the law in another country, they should have done their research and check what would happen if they were caught. Or even better, they should not have committed any crimes anywhere to begin with. Regardless of what the punishment is, Indonesia should go through with it to show people that being foreigner does not gives anyone a faux pass to break the law.

Sure, some people complain about the value of human life and the evils of capital punishment. But there are over seven billion people in the world: we have a pretty much endless supply of human life and most of it is not wasted on drug trafficking. Also, while death penalty does not prevent crimes, it certainly reduces the chance of repeat offenders, unless they come back as undead creatures (so far, it has not happened).

Not only that but for them it is a matter of internal social concern. If a foreigner is not executed because they can afford lawyers to change the verdict and/or the government bends under a foreign government's pressure then the local population is being shorthanded when it comes to justice... essentially the lives of the people of indonesia are less valuable than a foreigner's life. Worse even, if said foreigner is sent to his homeland where he would serve a very short sentence or be set free would be disastrous to the public trust and order...not to mention political suicide for those in power.

If a foreign national in the US got the death penalty for a criminal act..do you think it'd extradite that person to their country of origin where they would be given a light sentence or walk free? A quick google search shows plenty of foreigners executed and I didn't see any mention of any death penalty sentence being changed because of a foreign gov. insistence.

What is so evil about selling drugs? It is a victimless crime, the people buying and using the drugs made that choice of their own free will. It's no different from people smoking and drinking when they know it is bad for them, but it is their own body so it should be their choice. It's called Capitalism, supply and demand. There are loads of people addicted to legal stuff, but that's not the fault of the people producing and trading it.
Of course it's stupid for people to smuggle drugs into countries that have the death penalty for it, and many of these people are stupid. But maybe, since they come from countries that abolished the death penalty ages ago, they don't really consider that these savages in Indonesia will really execute someone for something trivial. It shouldn't surprise anyone, same when the Saudi barbarians behead someone for inane s**t. Of course these people are anti-freedom and civilized people should just stay away.

Darwinism at work.

Trying foreigners under the same standards as citizens doesn't seem like politics. It's a weird legacy of the colonial era that anyone thinks these convicted criminals deserve special treatment just because they are foreign.

riight...

This story is getting a lot media publicity in Australia and Indonesia but not elsewhere.

The two men in question were given the death penalty for drug importation along with another Australian. The third man had the death penalty removed. An allegation was made that the Indonesian judges in 2003 expected bribes but the lawyers defending Chan and Sukumaran advised not to be tempted. As a result both men automatically received the death penalty.

Despite this the former president of Indonesia (Susilo Bang Bang Yudhoyono) was anxious not to disrupt aid or relations with Australia so neither man was put on death row despite not having their sentence removed. The new president elected (Widjojo) is a conservative hardliner (despite loving US heavy metal music). Indonesians now unanimously want to see these two Australians go to the firing squad despite spending 10 years in rehabilitation including working with drug addicts and reforming other prisoners. For the new president this is a political stunt to win votes, the Indonesians suffer from a "third world" inferiority complex with Australia. While the locals are aware Australia is the largest donor to Indonesia they appear to harbour views that they resent our power.

The supreme irony is that Indonesia is currently fighting to save many of its own citizens from execution in foreign countries for drug crimes!! I think one of local journalists referred to this as "breath taking hippocracy"

More like the law of the jungle. Capital punishment does not work.

The law of the jungle is a totally unrelated concept.

In what way do you presume it is supposed to work?

In the context of applying a barbaric law because you are powerful and you can impose it on your people without consulting them. Not because it works or even has majority support.



It's purpose has always been punitive and political. It's a form of barbaric punishment that serves the ruling elite. We know the data supports that it does not serve as a deterrent.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N ... PgmYIccRhg

Right. So when person A sells person B some dope, who is the victim here?
Thinking that drug dealers are criminals is the same as blaming liquor stores for the stupid things people do with alcohol or blaming McDonalds that you're fat. In my opinion people also have the right to do harm to themselves, like smoking or eating unhealthy crap. It's not like the government owns our bodies, riiiight?

I'm not sure what you mean, but the law of the jungle is an unrelated concept based on common definitions.

I'm not sure if deterrence is relevant, but it most certainly works as a punishment, thus the name, and it is arguably the most effective way to get rid of repeating offenders. This in general, of course, and I do not support this particular ruling. Far from it. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of smuggling drugs from Indonesia where it is punishable by death. Don't you agree?

The victim is whoever person B may harm because he is doped up. When it comes to just the interaction between A and B, both are breaking the law by selling and purchasing illegal substances. The victims are also those that get harmed by the criminal elements that person A is funding with said drug money to keep selling his drugs...this is usually smuggling rings and other underground networks which all employ violence upon the population in different ways.

History shows us plenty of examples of what happens to a society when a highly addictive substance becomes widespread use. The Chinese suffered terrible social issues from opium and yes, the colonial powers of the time happily provided the bulk of that supply because it made them a lot of money and it kept the Chinese government destabilized with the constant riots and opium related violence and health crisis (and of course, of the Chinese drug lords that used that drug money for other criminal enterprises which undermined the government's rule).

The drug trade in the Americas alone has caused the death millions in the past couple of decades. Drug money ends up financing the criminal elements that produce the drugs, those that protect and transport it and those that sell it. In every step there is the requirement of violence. In Colombia (south america) for example, the billions that the drug trade generates is fed directly to the paramilitary armies (yes, armies not army, theres several of them) that protect the drug fields and to the thugs that oppress the population, silence witnesses and constantly kill police officers, politicians, government staff and military family members to discourage anyone from speaking or acting against the drug lords.

Indonesia put the death penalty on this particular crime because they were having serious social issues because of drug dependency. The criminal elements associated with the drug trade were getting out of hand. Would the death penalty work as a deterrent? Not as a perfect one but I'm pretty sure any other australian drug dealer in Indonesia now knows his government is not going to keep them from getting a lead overdose if they get caught...and perhaps that would encourage them to go peddle elsewhere. Personally I see it not as a deterrent but as vermin control. Once they're no longer with us, they cannot sell any more. Like I said, they knew the law of the land and CHOSE to do it. I'm sure they'll be regretting that choice as they face the firing squad.