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150 dead after Germanwings jet crashes in the French Alps

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starfox
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28 Mar 2015, 5:21 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
starfox wrote:
I don't think it's senseless. I get his reasons. Don't you?
I can fully understand his despair at having to lose not only the job that had been his life long dream, but also his very life. But no, I don't understand how he could have decided to end his despair by taking a plane load of people with him.
His was an unreasonable act. To go from "I don't like my situation" to "I am going to kill myself and take as many people with me as I can" makes no sense at all.


I see what you mean


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29 Mar 2015, 6:21 am

I don't believe that SSRI's cause violence or suicide. I believe that they might make it more likely for someone with violent or suicidal thoughts to be pushed over the edge.

It's like slipping someone lsd without them having any way of knowing that is in fact the lsd that is making them crazy. It's dangerous to prescribe mind-altering substances without treating them for what they are - mind-altering substances. They should always be prescribed with the warning that inhibitions may be increased and mania may be induced. This way the patient at least has a fighting chance to deal with the problem.

Anyway, my vote here is for narcissism. He seems to fit the profile of a family annihilator or a pseduo-commando. The incredibly tragic part about this case is he took not just one or two or three or even 10 people, he took out 150. Narcissist committing an act of terror to gain infamy is my vote. We see it over and over and over again and refuse to accept it exactly for what it is.



Kraichgauer
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29 Mar 2015, 10:19 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I don't believe that SSRI's cause violence or suicide. I believe that they might make it more likely for someone with violent or suicidal thoughts to be pushed over the edge.

It's like slipping someone lsd without them having any way of knowing that is in fact the lsd that is making them crazy. It's dangerous to prescribe mind-altering substances without treating them for what they are - mind-altering substances. They should always be prescribed with the warning that inhibitions may be increased and mania may be induced. This way the patient at least has a fighting chance to deal with the problem.

Anyway, my vote here is for narcissism. He seems to fit the profile of a family annihilator or a pseduo-commando. The incredibly tragic part about this case is he took not just one or two or three or even 10 people, he took out 150. Narcissist committing an act of terror to gain infamy is my vote. We see it over and over and over again and refuse to accept it exactly for what it is.


I suspect that most people just don't what narcissism as a clinical definition exactly is.


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spartian300
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29 Mar 2015, 11:05 am

I am worried that people will say he had Aspergers, and say he was insane because of it.



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29 Mar 2015, 11:32 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
I don't believe that SSRI's cause violence or suicide. I believe that they might make it more likely for someone with violent or suicidal thoughts to be pushed over the edge.

It's like slipping someone lsd without them having any way of knowing that is in fact the lsd that is making them crazy. It's dangerous to prescribe mind-altering substances without treating them for what they are - mind-altering substances. They should always be prescribed with the warning that inhibitions may be increased and mania may be induced. This way the patient at least has a fighting chance to deal with the problem.

Anyway, my vote here is for narcissism. He seems to fit the profile of a family annihilator or a pseduo-commando. The incredibly tragic part about this case is he took not just one or two or three or even 10 people, he took out 150. Narcissist committing an act of terror to gain infamy is my vote. We see it over and over and over again and refuse to accept it exactly for what it is.


I suspect that most people just don't what narcissism as a clinical definition exactly is.


Some pertinent information about narcissism and mass murder:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/forensi ... -vainglory
http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Ki ... 543262.php

And narcissism in general:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/narcissism

I haven't seen any suggestion that Andreas Lubitz was autistic and lots of interviews to suggest he was not.



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29 Mar 2015, 11:50 am

spartian300 wrote:
I am worried that people will say he had Aspergers, and say he was insane because of it.

The rare autistic that becomes a killer uses his/her natural abilities (attunement to fine details and intense focus) to methodically plan and execute. This was too spur of the moment to be caused by an autistic.



starfox
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29 Mar 2015, 11:58 am

Aristophanes wrote:
spartian300 wrote:
I am worried that people will say he had Aspergers, and say he was insane because of it.

The rare autistic that becomes a killer uses his/her natural abilities (attunement to fine details and intense focus) to methodically plan and execute. This was too spur of the moment to be caused by an autistic.


Probably true. I suppose he saw an opportunity and decided as soon as the pilot left.


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spartian300
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29 Mar 2015, 2:19 pm

You are forgetting: some people will do anything for a story. Anything. Even lie.



starfox
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29 Mar 2015, 3:16 pm

spartian300 wrote:
You are forgetting: some people will do anything for a story. Anything. Even lie.


Hmm which party are you saying is lying? :s


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29 Mar 2015, 5:05 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
starfox wrote:
I don't think it's senseless. I get his reasons. Don't you?
I can fully understand his despair at having to lose not only the job that had been his life long dream, but also his very life. But no, I don't understand how he could have decided to end his despair by taking a plane load of people with him.
His was an unreasonable act. To go from "I don't like my situation" to "I am going to kill myself and take as many people with me as I can" makes no sense at all.


It made sense to Jim Jones, guys who go postal and others.

Maybe he had a stroke?



Last edited by Nebogipfel on 29 Mar 2015, 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kraichgauer
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29 Mar 2015, 5:11 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
starfox wrote:
I don't think it's senseless. I get his reasons. Don't you?
I can fully understand his despair at having to lose not only the job that had been his life long dream, but also his very life. But no, I don't understand how he could have decided to end his despair by taking a plane load of people with him.
His was an unreasonable act. To go from "I don't like my situation" to "I am going to kill myself and take as many people with me as I can" makes no sense at all.


It made sense to Jim Jones and others.


It made sense to Jones, it made sense to Lubitz, but it doesn't make sense to those of us who aren't narcissistic mass killers.


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29 Mar 2015, 5:18 pm

Hmm. If you guys where in his situation what would your reaction be?


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29 Mar 2015, 7:33 pm

starfox wrote:
Hmm. If you guys where in his situation what would your reaction be?


I certainly wouldn't hurt 150 innocent people.


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29 Mar 2015, 10:34 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
spartian300 wrote:
I am worried that people will say he had Aspergers, and say he was insane because of it.

The rare autistic that becomes a killer uses his/her natural abilities (attunement to fine details and intense focus) to methodically plan and execute. This was too spur of the moment to be caused by an autistic.


Unless it was a meltdown. Anyway there is an unconfirmed report he told his girlfriend something similar to I will be famous someday. Nothing about ASD in reports so far and that is fine with me.

Does ASD disqualify you from being a pilot? And if not, will the closer look at "mental health" mean discrimination against all sorts of deserving people autistics included?


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30 Mar 2015, 9:22 am

starfox wrote:
Hmm. If you guys where in his situation what would your reaction be?

As a person with a long-term, deep interest in aviation, I would be totally thrilled to be in his position.

I would worry about how to pay off student loans if an eye problem meant I was out of the running as a commercial pilot. But I would look for opportunities to take my knowledge and experience to some other aviation related career with less stringent requirements. Maybe I could work in the office for the airline, or with ATC, or for the NTSB, or get an A&P rating and work in the hanger. Or maybe go the tycoon route and find an underserved route to base a new air taxi or regional airline--I would be in a great position to evaluate candidates for pilot jobs and know enough about the rest of the business to make a solid business plan and pitch for angel investors.

That's just off the top of my head. There are ten million things that you could do in his situation that would not involve mass murder.



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30 Mar 2015, 11:36 am

Aristophanes wrote:
spartian300 wrote:
I am worried that people will say he had Aspergers, and say he was insane because of it.

The rare autistic that becomes a killer uses his/her natural abilities (attunement to fine details and intense focus) to methodically plan and execute. This was too spur of the moment to be caused by an autistic.


From what "I" heard, it was NOT, seemingly, "spur-of-the-moment", as he told his former girlfriend, quite awhile ago, that he was gonna do something that would make everybody know his name----that seems "thought-out", to ME! No one, that "I" know of, has said anything about it being Autism / Aspergers, though.




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