[IMPORTANT] Hamas launches foot assault against settlements.

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Persephone29
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11 Mar 2024, 8:22 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Even if Israel wins, it doesn’t prove that a specific god and set of beliefs are real. However, it’s not uncommon for people to assign supernatural causes to random events or acts carried out by human will. People in my former faith or, indeed, any faith do it all the time. Given the fact that Israel has a clear advantage, I see nothing surprising in the way things are currently going. Bullies often beat up those who are smaller and weaker than they are.


I don't think I said that it does. I simply said they are operating in the way their God does, so I'm not surprised that since you don't believe in their God, you don't support it. What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.


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11 Mar 2024, 8:28 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.

It often seems like leaders/God don’t care about oppressed groups. That’s why people speak up and fight for civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights, etc. Not much progress would be made if we said: “Welp, I guess God’s not on their side. Tough luck on them.”


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12 Mar 2024, 8:13 am

Israeli jets hit Lebanon's Bekaa Valley for a second day

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Israeli warplanes struck deep into Lebanon for a second consecutive day on Tuesday, hitting a facility belonging to Hezbollah in the Bekaa Valley and killing at least one member of the Iran-backed group, sources in Lebanon said.

The Israeli military said its fighter jets had "struck two Hezbollah military command centers" in the Baalbek area, in response to Hezbollah rocket launches towards northern Israel earlier in the day.

The violence marked an uptick of the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel which has been fought in parallel to the Gaza war and fuelled fears of an all-out conflict between the heavily armed adversaries.

Hezbollah said in a statement it had fired more than 100 Katyusha rockets at 7:00 a.m. (0500 GMT), targeting several Israeli military posts, in response to Israeli shelling of the Bekaa Valley region on Monday night

At least one civilian was killed and several others were wounded in Monday's strikes by Israel, one of which hit the southern entrance to the city of Baalbek, about 2 km (1.2 miles) from its ancient Roman ruins, two security sources in Lebanon and the Baalbek governor, Bashir Khader, said.
The Israeli military said that in response to Monday's rocket launches, its fighter jets had struck sites in the Baalbek area which Hezbollah used to store "significant assets used to strength its weapons arsenal".

"A military compound in the area of Khiam and terrorist infrastructure in the area of Bint Jbeil were also struck," the Israeli military added, referring to two towns in southern Lebanon.
The Hezbollah member was killed and several more were wounded in an airstrike in the Bekaa Valley village of Nabi Chit, said one of the Lebanese sources.

HEZBOLLAH STRONGHOLD
The targeted region is a stronghold of the Shi'ite Islamist group near the Lebanese-Syrian border

The hostilities are the worst since Hezbollah and Israel fought a war in 2006. The violence has oscillated day by day, but strikes by both sides have broadly intensified over time and targeted a wider range of areas.

Much of the violence been contained to areas near the border, with notable exceptions including Israel's first airstrike in the Bekaa Valley on Feb. 26, and a Jan. 2 Israeli drone strike in Beirut that killed a top Hamas leader.


Is Israel hoping to escalate hostilities with Hezbollah in Lebanon?
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The escalation on Monday night and into the day on Tuesday may well be fodder for more speculation by analysts who feel Israel may turn its full focus to the Lebanese front if a Gaza ceasefire is established.

“Israel made it clear that once they are done with Gaza they will turn their attention to the north,” Hilal Khashan, a professor of political science at the American University of Beirut, said.

“They want Hezbollah away from their border [be it] diplomatically or militarily. They’ve been clear on this matter.”

More than 300 people have been killed in Lebanon, including some 240 members of Hezbollah, while about 20 Israelis have been killed in the cross-border violence.

The fighting has also forced some 90,000 people to flee southern Lebanon, according to a report released in late February by the International Organization for Migration, while in Israel 80,000 people were evacuated from northern towns and villages by the Israeli government, according to Israeli media.

“Israel is expanding the circle of war little by little but so far there is no decision for a comprehensive war,” Kassem Kassir, an analyst close to Hezbollah, told Al Jazeera.

“[Hezbollah] cannot withdraw [from the conflict] before stopping the war on Gaza and agreeing on a comprehensive solution.”

Israel is demanding that Hezbollah pull their forces back behind the Litani River, roughly 30km (19 miles) north of the border, but analysts said that seems unlikely to happen.

“If Hezbollah pulls out of the south they would have to disarm and I don’t think they’d agree diplomatically,” Khashan said. “[But] if Hezbollah does not pull out, Israel will take action.”

Mounting pressure on Netanyahu
Some analysts have suggested that Netanyahu wants to keep Israel at war – either in Gaza or with Hezbollah in Lebanon – because it is the best way for him to remain at the country’s helm.

“Netanyahu’s desire to [keep the country at war to] claim a victory is evidence of a deep internal rift and the increasing condemnation from the international community,” Imad Salamey, associate professor of political science and international affairs at the Lebanese American University in Beirut, told Al Jazeera.

Benny Gantz, visited Washington last week and met with senior American officials, in what some analysts said was an attempt to shift Israeli policy.

But barring a radical departure from the current trajectory, a more focused confrontation between the Israeli military and Hezbollah could still be on the cards.

An Israeli journalist recently reported that a Larnaca-based port used for checking goods set to be delivered to Gaza could double as an alternative to the Port of Haifa, should it be shut down in the case of an intensification of the conflict with Hezbollah.

Most Israelis believe the state should act against Hezbollah in some capacity, according to a survey conducted by the Israeli Maariv newspaper, while half the country says a war against Hezbollah should be a last resort to restore border security, according to a poll by the Israel Democracy Institute think tank.

“Neither side intentionally wants to widen the war because the cost would be devastating compared to any political win,” Salamey said.

Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah said in February that a ceasefire in Gaza would end its military operations. But some believe Israel will not be satisfied by that.

Khashan said a scenario could unfold that involves Israel launching an intensified military operation on Lebanon post-Gaza that would eventually lead to a diplomatic solution, possibly including Hezbollah retreating from the border areas. It would be an “outcome that will give both parties a claim to victory, similar to 2006”.

But until a ceasefire is announced in Gaza, uncertainty hangs over Lebanon, with the potential for another catastrophic war just around the corner.



In Jerusalem's Old City, Ramadan begins with unusual quiet
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The sun was shining over the streets of Jerusalem's Old City on Monday as the first full day of Ramadan began — but with no cease-fire in sight, the war in Gaza cast a heavy shadow over the start of the holy month, with fears of tensions rising around the revered Al-Aqsa mosque.

Israeli border police patrolled the streets of the Old City's Muslim quarter — an area that is usually bustling with people and adorned with lights, lanterns and decorations during Ramadan.

On Monday, it was markedly quiet, with no signs of celebration as small groups of worshippers made their way to Al-Aqsa, the third-holiest site in Islam, for noon prayers.

For Muslims around the world, Ramadan is "the most important month for us," shopkeeper Jamil Halwani said. But this year, he said, the usual "joy of Ramadan," a time of fasting, prayer, service, introspection and gathering, was absent.

“We want to decorate,” but "what we see in Gaza — it will not allow us," he said as Ramadan began with no sign of a cease-fire deal that would mean the release of hostages held by Hamas and a halt to Israel's offensive in the enclave, during which more than 31,000 people have been killed amid growing fears of a famine.

"This is the only thing we can do for Gaza as Jerusalemites, is not to decorate," he sighed.

Halwani, 38, said many also feared a rise in tensions and possibly violence in East Jerusalem if Israeli authorities block worshippers from accessing Al-Aqsa during the month of Ramadan.

Without Al-Aqsa mosque, we are nothing. Even if they will beat us or arrest us, we have to go and pray," he said.

Already, on Sunday, at least one clash was reported, with the Palestinian Information Ministry saying Israeli authorities blocked young men from accessing the mosque's compound as they made their way there for the first Taraweeh, an evening prayer held each night of Ramadan.

Video circulated on social media showed a large crowd of people being blocked from accessing one of the gates leading to the mosque, with at least two officers appearing to strike at people with batons as the group was pushed back. NBC News verified the videos using geolocation. Israeli authorities did not respond to a request for comment on the incident.

Following Sunday's clash, the Palestinian Information Ministry said it was "noteworthy that the occupation forces have imposed a strict siege on Al-Aqsa Mosque for five months and prevented entry to it."

Mustafa Abu Sway, a Palestinian scholar who delivers lectures at Al-Aqsa mosque and is a member of the Islamic Waqf council in Jerusalem, which administers the site, said he feared Sunday night's incident was a sign of more to come.

Already, Netanyahu said that there will be no restrictions — already they violated this," he said. "Already, there are restrictions in place."

Abu Sway said he worried it would not be safe for boys and young men to visit the Al-Aqsa compound in the weeks ahead, and he said it would be "devastating" for young people to have to avoid the sacred site.

Chuck Freilich, a former deputy national security adviser in Israel, said that in a time of heightened tension, unwarranted restrictions on access to Al-Aqsa during Ramadan could risk sparking a "broader confrontation — and one with direct religious overtones."

"Jerusalem is a tinderbox to begin with," he said. "Jewish, Muslim or Christian, it raises emotions on all sides."

Hamas has often invoked violence at Al-Aqsa mosque in its efforts to incite uprisings, also naming its Oct. 7 attack the "Al-Aqsa Flood."

Daniel Seidemann, a Jerusalem-based lawyer and expert on the region, said the feeling in the Old City was more “one of sobriety, despair” and “anger” over the war in Gaza more than anything else.


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12 Mar 2024, 2:59 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.

It often seems like leaders/God don’t care about oppressed groups. That’s why people speak up and fight for civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights, etc. Not much progress would be made if we said: “Welp, I guess God’s not on their side. Tough luck on them.”


Let me know when you win this


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12 Mar 2024, 4:13 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Even if Israel wins, it doesn’t prove that a specific god and set of beliefs are real. However, it’s not uncommon for people to assign supernatural causes to random events or acts carried out by human will. People in my former faith or, indeed, any faith do it all the time. Given the fact that Israel has a clear advantage, I see nothing surprising in the way things are currently going. Bullies often beat up those who are smaller and weaker than they are.


I don't think I said that it does. I simply said they are operating in the way their God does, so I'm not surprised that since you don't believe in their God, you don't support it. What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.


Oppression and inequality are difficult problems to address, therefore they're ordained by the One True God.

Don't ask me for proof of the One True God, just trust me bro.

And if I'm not right, why haven't people who fight against those problems made a utopia yet? Checkmate losers who desire justice.


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12 Mar 2024, 6:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:


IGF does IGF things.


Was this some sort of gas or bioweapon?

The reason I ask is I see no blood.


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12 Mar 2024, 7:00 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:


IGF does IGF things.


Was this some sort of gas or bioweapon?

The reason I ask is I see no blood.


Good question, the video definitely asks more questions than it answers. I haven't been able to find any additional to context for the claims.


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13 Mar 2024, 11:04 am

5 killed as Israeli forces shell humanitarian aid distribution center in Gaza

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At least five people were killed and several others injured on Wednesday in Israeli shelling of a humanitarian aid distribution center in the southern Gaza Strip, according to medical sources.

The attack targeted a distribution center run by the UN agency for Palestinian refugees (UNRWA) in central Rafah, witnesses said.

Medical sources said some of the injured were in serious condition.

There was no comment from the Israeli army on the report.

Separately, five people were killed in an Israeli airstrike on a house in Tal al-Hawa neighborhood southwest of Gaza City, witnesses said.


Germany says Israel abiding by international law as Gaza death toll surpasses 31,000
Quote:
Germany on Wednesday reiterated that Israel is complying with humanitarian law in its war on the Gaza Strip, where the death toll has crossed 31,000.

Asked at a routine government press briefing in Berlin whether Chancellor Olaf Scholz still believes Israel is upholding international law in the Palestinian enclave, his spokesman Steffen Hebestreit replied: “The chancellor has said he is convinced that Israel is abiding by international law, so this is not a changed position.”


Hamas military leader Hadi Mustafa killed in IDF strike on Lebanon
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An IDF fighter jet killed senior Hamas terrorist Hadi Mustafa on Wednesday, the IDF Spokesperson's Unit confirmed.

Mustafa was a key Hamas operative and significant in directing terror squads and promoting attacks against Israel.

Mustafa was killed while in a vehicle on Wednesday morning in Tyre, near the Rashidieh Palestinian refugee camp in Lebanon.

In response, Hamas confirmed that the terrorist killed in Tyre was Hadi Mustafa, a senior member of the terror organization's military wing in Lebanon.

Hamas leader in Lebanon
The Hamas radio channel described Mustafa as a primary leader of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades in Lebanon.


This is why Israel lets Hezbollah leader Nasrallah live, ex-IDF col. says
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IDF Col. (Res.) Ronen Cohen, former head of the International Institute for Counter-Terrorism, was recently interviewed by Liat Ron on Radio 104.5FM. Cohen discussed the possibility of war against the terrorist organization Hezbollah and the reason the war in the North hasn't escalated.
Cohen stated, "I'm not sure the senior leadership is willing to wage war in the North. I'm not sure we are in a position of true capability to handle such a war. We are capable but the cost will be very heavy on the ground forces.

Cohen further explained the option of war against Hezbollah in Lebanon, "Of course, the Americans are the last ones wanting war in the North, and we are dependent on them in terms of armament. I'm also not sure there is a willingness in the senior leadership; they would prefer to reach an agreement and end the war in the South.

"This is the first war in Israel that we are unable to fight on two fronts. Certainly, if we could, we would, and this shows what happened to the army over the past 20 years," he added.

Nasrallah is still alive, IDF holding its breath
Cohen concluded, "When we are at war, [Hezbollah chief Hassan] Nasrallah learned to quickly enter a bunker. When we are in routine, we do not want to start a war. It is clear that such an assassination has the potential to start a war - that's why Nasrallah is still alive. This is the whole story of the new security perception, articulated by former defense minister Moshe Ya'alon who said, 'We are destined to live between rounds, and our job is to keep the next round at bay.' Immediately, everyone realized that this should not be on their watch, and it's better to maintain peace while the enemy has grown stronger beyond the fence."


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14 Mar 2024, 1:00 am

Quote:from above.
Germany on Wednesday reiterated that Israel is complying with humanitarian law in its war on the Gaza Strip, where the death toll has crossed 31,000.

Asked at a routine government press briefing in Berlin whether Chancellor Olaf Scholz still believes Israel is upholding international law in the Palestinian enclave, his spokesman Steffen Hebestreit replied: “The chancellor has said he is convinced that Israel is abiding by international law, so this is not a changed position.”


Okay this is sad about Germany, one has to Wonder if this wasnt pushed on the Germans somehow to support Israel.
As if , one could boycott mercedes, VW and Audi and other German auto manufacturers .If any of those are still made in Germany :roll: ....Maybe they have generational Guilt ?...
But honestly all things considered, one might think , if countries are sending aide to Palestinians, and Israel is interrupting the flow .. It might be considered that the countries providing aide .. Might provide Aircraft to provide miltiary aircover for those recieving the aide. By extreme Force of Arms, regardless of Cost to those attacking the ones
that are recieving the aide..? If Israeli forces want to play War ,then they need to be made to understand the real cost to human life .And have a sense of what they might be inflicting on others? IMHO. Am seeing around the USA in my travels more images ,, even Large graffiti art on sides of bridges of "Free Palestine". Sad our Politicians do not hear the voices of their own people . Apologies for being pragmatic in my own Way . And opinions involving harm.But this really
gets my goat. But Honestly we supported Ukraine..? ? ?


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14 Mar 2024, 4:13 am

Jakki wrote:
Quote:from above.
Germany on Wednesday reiterated that Israel is complying with humanitarian law in its war on the Gaza Strip, where the death toll has crossed 31,000.

Asked at a routine government press briefing in Berlin whether Chancellor Olaf Scholz still believes Israel is upholding international law in the Palestinian enclave, his spokesman Steffen Hebestreit replied: “The chancellor has said he is convinced that Israel is abiding by international law, so this is not a changed position.”


Okay this is sad about Germany, one has to Wonder if this wasnt pushed on the Germans somehow to support Israel.
As if , one could boycott mercedes, VW and Audi and other German auto manufacturers .If any of those are still made in Germany :roll: ....Maybe they have generational Guilt ?...
But honestly all things considered, one might think , if countries are sending aide to Palestinians, and Israel is interrupting the flow .. It might be considered that the countries providing aide .. Might provide Aircraft to provide miltiary aircover for those recieving the aide. By extreme Force of Arms, regardless of Cost to those attacking the ones
that are recieving the aide..? If Israeli forces want to play War ,then they need to be made to understand the real cost to human life .And have a sense of what they might be inflicting on others? IMHO. Am seeing around the USA in my travels more images ,, even Large graffiti art on sides of bridges of "Free Palestine". Sad our Politicians do not hear the voices of their own people . Apologies for being pragmatic in my own Way . And opinions involving harm.But this really
gets my goat. But Honestly we supported Ukraine..? ? ?

I do think Germany's pro Israel stance has everything to do with Holocaust guilt.

As far as politicians not listening to the Americans they sort of are. If you go by the streets Americans are furious with Israel but the streets represent the most anti Israel segment of the American public. That makes sense as people who are moved to take to the streets are generally the most dissatisfied.

Americans' Views of Both Israel, Palestinian Authority Down
Quote:
Americans’ opinions of both Israel and the Palestinian Authority have worsened in the past year amid escalating tensions between the two sides since last fall. Fifty-eight percent of Americans, down from 68% last year, have a “very” or “mostly favorable” view of Israel. This is the lowest favorable rating for Israel in over two decades. At the same time, positive opinions of the Palestinian Authority have dropped from 26% to 18%, the lowest since 2015.

These results are from Gallup’s Feb. 1-20 World Affairs survey. Americans have always been more positive toward their ally Israel than toward the Palestinians. Since Gallup first measured opinions of Israel in 1989, an average of 65% of Americans have had favorable opinions of it. The lowest rating for Israel during this time was 45% in 1989, during another time of heightened tensions in the region.

In contrast, an average of 19% of Americans have viewed the Palestinian Authority positively since Gallup’s first measure in 2000. The high rating was 30% in 2021. Opinions were above the historical averages from 2017 until this year.

Young Adults’ Opinions of Israel Plummet
Young adults show the biggest decline in ratings of Israel, dropping from 64% favorable among 18- to 34-year-olds in 2023 to 38%. Middle-aged adults (those aged 35 to 54) show a smaller but still significant drop, from 66% to 55%, while there has been no meaningful change among adults aged 55 and older.

As a result, the modest age differences in ratings of Israel seen a year ago, when 10 percentage points separated young adults' and older adults’ views, have expanded. Older Americans are now nearly twice as likely as younger Americans to rate Israel positively, 71% to 38%, respectively.

Younger and older adults’ ratings of the Palestinian Authority haven’t changed much in the past year but were not very positive to begin with. There has been a sharp drop in favorability among 35- to 54-year-olds, from 30% to 15%. Middle-aged adults’ opinions are now closer to those of older Americans (11%) than younger Americans (32%).

Young adults are far more likely than older adults to identify as politically independent, so it follows that independents show the biggest change in opinions of Israel over the past year. They tie with Democrats for the biggest decline in ratings of the Palestinian Authority. Overall, Republicans are much more positive toward Israel, and more negative toward the Palestinian Authority, than either independents or Democrats.

Middle East Sympathies Largely Unchanged by War
A separate question in the poll underscores Americans’ leanings toward Israel, as it finds 51% saying they sympathize more with the Israelis and 27% more with the Palestinians. The remainder say they sympathize equally with both sides (4%), do not sympathize with either side (10%) or do not have an opinion (8%).

The balance of opinion is similar to last year, when 54% were more sympathetic to the Israelis and 31% to the Palestinians. This suggests that the recent actions by both sides have done little to shift U.S. loyalties, even if overall opinions toward both sides are less positive.

While Americans have always sympathized more with the Israelis, the gap has narrowed in recent years, with last year’s 23-point gap the smallest measured to date and this year’s nearly the same.

Prevailing political patterns in Middle East sympathies remain in place this year. Republicans overwhelmingly sympathize with Israel over the Palestinians, independents tend to favor Israel, and more Democrats side with the Palestinians than Israelis. This is the case even as Democrats give Israel much higher favorable ratings than they give the Palestinian Authority. The Democrats’ movement has been recent; until 2022, Democrats were more likely to sympathize with Israel.

Among age groups, young adults are slightly more sympathetic to the Palestinians than the Israelis (after being equally divided last year), with the other groups sympathizing with Israel.

More Americans View Conflict as Critical U.S. Threat
he three major party groups largely agree on how much of a threat the Israeli-Palestinian conflict poses to the U.S., with 55% of Democrats, 53% of Republicans and 50% of independents describing it as a critical threat. All groups are more inclined to see it as a critical threat than two years ago, when 36% of Democrats, 42% of Republicans and 30% of independents held that view.

Older Americans (64%) are far more likely than their middle-aged (38%) or younger counterparts (48%) to perceive the conflict as a critical threat to U.S. vital interests. Two years ago, 43% of those 55 and older, 30% of those aged 35 to 54, and 32% of 18- to 34-year-olds believed it was a critical threat.

No Consensus on Which Side U.S. Should Pressure More for a Resolution
Although Americans say they are more sympathetic to the Israelis than the Palestinians, they divide almost evenly when asked whether the U.S. should put more pressure on the Palestinians (39%) or Israelis (36%) to resolve the conflict. Eight percent say the U.S. should put more pressure on both sides, 7% say it should put pressure on neither, and 9% have no opinion.

When Gallup has asked this question before, prior to the current war, the margin in favor of putting pressure on the Palestinians has been larger, ranging from nine to 23 points.

Majorities of young adults (53%) and Democrats (57%) believe the U.S. should put more pressure on the Israelis, while about half as many in each group -- 27% and 24%, respectively -- think the U.S. should pressure the Palestinians more.

Middle-aged adults and independents are divided evenly between wanting to put more pressure on the Israelis (37% for both groups) and the Palestinians (37% of 35- to 54-year-olds and 34% of independents).

By 64% to 14%, Republicans think the U.S. should pressure the Palestinians more than the Israelis. Older Americans are also more inclined to want the U.S. to put more pressure on the Israelis (49%) than the Palestinians (27%).

Americans Less Optimistic About Peace, Still Favor Two-State Solution
In February 2023, several months before the Oct. 7 Hamas attack, Americans were divided evenly on whether Israel and the Arab nations would ever be able to settle their differences and live in peace. Americans are somewhat less optimistic this year -- 42% expect there to be peace, and 53% do not.

Americans have been much more pessimistic about Middle East peace in the past than they are now. For example, in 2006, a record-low 27% thought peace in the region was possible

The current figures are essentially unchanged from last year and generally similar to what Gallup has measured since 2019. Before that, Americans were more likely to favor than oppose an independent Palestinian state, but support was generally below the majority level, with higher percentages not expressing an opinion either way.

At no point have more Americans opposed than favored a Palestinian state; the closest division was three points in 2017.

There are vast political differences on this matter -- 74% of Democrats, 55% of independents and 26% of Republicans are in favor of creating an independent Palestinian state. A majority of Republicans, 59%, oppose the idea. Republicans have been more likely to oppose than favor the establishment of a Palestinian state since 2012.

Bottom Line
The war between Israel and Hamas has made Americans less positive toward both sides. While Americans’ underlying pro-Israeli sympathies have not changed since the war began, they are now divided over which side the U.S. should pressure more to end the conflict. Americans were also largely divided on Israel’s actions shortly after the fighting began.

These findings underscore the policy challenges the conflict is creating for the Biden administration. Those challenges are made more difficult by President Joe Biden’s fellow Democrats tending to side with the Palestinians more than the Israelis and wanting the U.S. to exert more pressure on its traditional ally.

Further underscoring the difficulty for Biden are young adults’ much less positive views toward Israel. To the extent Biden’s efforts to end the conflict are seen as favoring Israel too much, it could cost him politically with this key constituency of the Democratic Party, one that will be crucial to his winning reelection.

What this and other polling is telling us is that Americans are not completely pro-Israel like they used to be and is suggestive that Americans will be anti-Israel in a generation.

Politicians care about votes. It is an oversimplification but the idea is that the young take to the streets more and older people(the more pro-Israel segment) vote more. The conventional wisdom is that young people have more time and energy to be out in the streets while older people have family and work obligations.

In short the Biden administration's policy of being pro-two-state solution (which by definition is zionist), we are more sympathetic to Israel but they have gone too far is muddled but is generally not unreflective of the voting public.


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14 Mar 2024, 5:40 am

Survey: Israili Public trust in IDF higher than ever, ‘noticeable decline’ in faith in government

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The Israel Defense Forces and local authorities have received the highest trust ratings of any public institution among Jewish Israelis in the 2023 Israeli Democracy Index survey, while Arab Israeli faith in public institutions was seen to be on the rise.

The survey, usually taken annually, was conducted in June 2023 and then repeated at the end of 2023 and the beginning of 2024 to gauge public sentiment following the outbreak of the war in Gaza, sparked by Hamas’s October 7 massacre.

Among Jewish Israelis, the IDF has the highest trust rating among state institutions (86 percent on average), followed by municipalities/local authorities (55% in June, 64% in December) and President Isaac Herzog (54% in June, 61% in December).

On the other end of the spectrum, the survey finds a “noticeable decline in trust in the government and the Knesset” (from 28% to 23% for the government, and from 24% to 19% for the Knesset).

Among Arab Israelis, where trust in state institutions is generally lower than among Jewish Israelis, the survey finds a sharp rise in trust since October 7. Trust in the IDF rose among Arab Israelis from 21% in June to 44% in December, according to the index, and the Supreme Court led the trust rankings (26% in June and 53% in December).

“The rupture that we experienced following the events of October 7th is reflected in the findings of this year’s Israeli Democracy Index: the public places great trust in the IDF and its commanders, who set a personal example, take responsibility, and act with courage and conviction in every aspect of the war,” IDI president Yohanan Plesner says in a statement.


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14 Mar 2024, 8:26 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Even if Israel wins, it doesn’t prove that a specific god and set of beliefs are real. However, it’s not uncommon for people to assign supernatural causes to random events or acts carried out by human will. People in my former faith or, indeed, any faith do it all the time. Given the fact that Israel has a clear advantage, I see nothing surprising in the way things are currently going. Bullies often beat up those who are smaller and weaker than they are.


I don't think I said that it does. I simply said they are operating in the way their God does, so I'm not surprised that since you don't believe in their God, you don't support it. What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.


Oppression and inequality are difficult problems to address, therefore they're ordained by the One True God.

Don't ask me for proof of the One True God, just trust me bro.


And if I'm not right, why haven't people who fight against those problems made a utopia yet? Checkmate losers who desire justice.


I have never asked you or anyone on this site to believe in God.

The fact that many Israelis do believe in God seems to be working out quite well for them, though. I'm sure that infuriates you, but it's true.


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14 Mar 2024, 8:44 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Even if Israel wins, it doesn’t prove that a specific god and set of beliefs are real. However, it’s not uncommon for people to assign supernatural causes to random events or acts carried out by human will. People in my former faith or, indeed, any faith do it all the time. Given the fact that Israel has a clear advantage, I see nothing surprising in the way things are currently going. Bullies often beat up those who are smaller and weaker than they are.


I don't think I said that it does. I simply said they are operating in the way their God does, so I'm not surprised that since you don't believe in their God, you don't support it. What I am saying is that the powers that be (God, Rulers, etc) don't seem to care what you think. I expect it will stay that way.


Oppression and inequality are difficult problems to address, therefore they're ordained by the One True God.

Don't ask me for proof of the One True God, just trust me bro.


And if I'm not right, why haven't people who fight against those problems made a utopia yet? Checkmate losers who desire justice.


I have never asked you or anyone on this site to believe in God.

The fact that many Israelis do believe in God seems to be working out quite well for them, though. I'm sure that infuriates you, but it's true.


Terrible logic infuriates me, that's why your arguments draw my ire. Your arguments are no different from a child trying to dodge blame for their antisocial actions by shifting responsibility on to an imaginary friend.

I'm not actually explicitly supporting evil because my imaginary friend says all is going to plan and he defines good and evil.

It's fair to blame secular authorities for failing to act appropriately, it's unreasonable to conclude that it's all happening because of the boogieman.

You're no different from any other huckster offering simple lies to explain a complicated reality. The fact that a lot of people might agree that it's because of the boogieman doesn't make it so. A lot of people also believe in a flat earth, but they're objectively wrong.

There was another objectively evil regime that engaged in genocide. They believed their imaginary friend justified it, they even claimed Gott mit uns on their belt buckles. Yet, when called to account they were held responsible by courts that didn't consider their imaginary friend's feelings on the matter.

Because your imaginary friend's feelings are irrelevant to questions of morality.


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 14 Mar 2024, 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Mar 2024, 8:49 pm

Groups/nations of other religious persuasions experience success in warfare sometimes. Does that mean that their gods are behind it or does it only count when it supposedly involves YHWH?


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14 Mar 2024, 8:51 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Groups/nations of other religious persuasions experience success in warfare sometimes. Does that mean that their gods are behind it or does it only count when it supposedly involves YHWH?


When YHWH is claimed to support both sides, is that because he's hedging his bets? :nerdy:


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14 Mar 2024, 8:57 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Groups/nations of other religious persuasions experience success in warfare sometimes. Does that mean that their gods are behind it or does it only count when it supposedly involves YHWH?


When YHWH is claimed to support both sides, is that because he's hedging his bets? :nerdy:

Maybe when he supports both sides, it helps extend the conflict which will lead to more infanticides. God seems to particularly like killing babies in the OT. I’m not sure what he has against them.:shrug:


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