You can no longer smoke in a French cafe!! !

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No. In fact, the rule will be enforced in all cases with (virtually) no exceptions. Some bars have even chosen to be ahead of schedule and have decided to enforce the rule as of January 1st on their own initiative. Don't you get tired of constantly ripping on Dutch people? I know I would.

Yes

And tables and chairs and sign boards and display stands and dog s**t and parked cars all over the pavements to the constant joy of people with pushchairs, usually women, and to people who can't see so well, and old people who have to climb up and down the pavemants to get past , and etc etc!!

I have become so used to walking in the road that when i was in England in August I had trouble remembering to use the pavement! However i think i prefer that to living somewhere where walking in the road is illegal.

Quite possible you didn't see the article in the Algemeen Dagblad, where the head of police Haaglanden said he had no plans to instruct his men to enforce the new law. Unfortunately it was the print version, otherwise I'd post the link. As the law is now written, restaurant owners are meant to be fined for smoking violations, not smokers themselves. Stupid, eh?

Other idiocies in the new law:

-"Smoking rooms" in bars and restaurants have to have doors that are afsluitbaar (closeable). But not necessarily closed. Duh.

-There can be no waiter service in the smoking room. Duh.

-There doesn't have to be any ventilation in the smoking room. Duh.
http://www.horeca.org/smartsite.dws?id=60375


Maybe a very few, but not many. That's a misconception the Dutch media is intent on spreading: http://www.bndestem.nl/binnenland/24045 ... ldzaam.ece


I'll stop the minute they stop advertising themselves as an honest, open, tolerant people. It ain't even close to the truth.

OK; now the pop quiz: who is this figure below:


Is it

a) Jim Crow
b) Steppin Fetchit
c) Dutch Santa's slave, Piet

UncleBeer. Buddy. Hearken to my words and heed them well.

Sinterklaas is not racist. Never was, is not, and never will be. Sinterklaas is a character from Dutch folklore and is meant to make little children happy. That has nothing, I repeat: nothing to do with racism. Period.

Really. Stop tilting at windmills (both literally and figuratively). Stop systematically depicting all the Dutch as racists. I for one am not a racist. In fact: you don't even know me. I have never done anything to deserve your anger -- that is: except for being Dutch. Which for you of course would apparently be reason enough to hate someone regardless. But stop flinging mud at random people because of their nationality and calling them racists. Search your own conscience, acknowledge blame and admit that you will probably never be eligible for the "Most tolerant person on the surface of the Earth"-award yourself.

"But the kiddies love the big slaveowner! "

That's not much of a reason to defend racist stereotypes.

Were you even paying attention!?!

Buddy, wake up to reality: it's you who is the ethnophobe around here. Either it's that, or you're just incredibly stubborn.

I don't know for what unfathomable reason you hate everyone who has the Dutch nationality. But you need to put a stop to these half-baked attempts at clumsily trying to insult Dutch people, for your own sake. You're making yourself look ridiculous. Tilt at windmills somewhere else. Cease your bitter and lonely crusade against the Dutch populace. Or emigrate. Whatever suits you fine. But stop your bungling attempts at insulting random people because of their nationality.

Right. English doesn't even contain a slur corresponding to "allochtoon" (means "not of pure blood"; can even be applied to 3rd-generation Dutch-born Dutch citizens of supposedly "impure" heritage).


I'll 'tilt' where ever I please.

Victory!! !

"Allochtoon" means "foreigner". How racist!

"To tilt at windmills" is a very common and usual English expression, derived from a Spanish novel by Cervantes. It means: fighting a hopeless battle you can't possibly win.

The flame war ends here. I am here to learn, share experiences and stories, make friends and have nice conversations. I am here for both support and amusement. And recognition. And to possibly help other people who are in more or less the same situation, if only to think along or cheer someone up. I am not here to fight against bigotry and ethnophobia. I won't stoop down to that level. I'm above that. I'm here for a place to belong. Not to defend myself because I happen to have the wrong (i.e. Dutch) blood. Thank you, curtain closed.

I agree the use of the term "allochtoon" is racist. And it's official policy of the NL government. Go figure.

As to your definition: Why is the term "allochtoon" only used on immigrants from ethnic minorities? Why's it used on folks who were born in NL, have always held NL citizenship, and speak only Dutch? Why is there the distinction of Western and non-Western allochtoon? Because ya'll want to keep an official way to discriminate against brown folk; simple as that.

The quick FAQ: Turks and Moroccans (even once they've attained citizenship) are the oppressed classes in NL; accused of everything from crime to high taxes to crumbling infrastructure. The use of the label "allochtoon" is just another form of official oppression.

I'm sorry, but you'll have to rant about the "racist" Dutch alone from now on. I'm not playing anymore. Refer to my above message for further information.

Good for them. South Africa brought in similar legislation years ago. Coffee smells much better without smoke.

Wow, this seems to be a good move for France. People (including asthmatics like myself) should not subject to second-hand smoke. They should have to right to fresh air.

have you ever been to a french cafe? The people who hang out in them smoking are definitely not sophisticated. Half of them are under the age of 18!