How many people are seriously afraid of firearms?

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Your intentions are irrelevant. You have a gun and he doesn't know your intentions. To be safe you would need to be able to read each other's minds. Or just have no gun, pose no threat, and not get killed.

If my gun isn't visable, he doesn't know that I have it. The fact that I may have one doesn't cause me to get shot.

Have you ever been robbed? Have you ever carried a gun? Do you have any real world experience with this, or is your position only from theory?

I'm not asking to be rude, I just want to know if your opinions are based on experience and theory, or theory only. Not to be mean in any way.

Frances

If your gun isn't visible and you won't use it, why do you have it?

I didn't say I wouldn't ever use it, I said I would use it only in certain situations. Being robbed of money, etc, wouldn't be one of those situations. It wasn't visable because even though open carry is legal in my state, I'm a female, and women don't normally walk around with a gun on our belts, unless it's for a job of some kind. Most people who carry, will carry concealed.

If your position assumed that I was carrying openly, on my belt, etc, then you would also have to remember that I wouldn't likely be any kind of victim. I wouldn't be approached by a criminal, they would move on to an easier target, unless I had something that was rare, or only I had, or they had a personal grudge against me.

If you are saying that the fact that the possibility that another person may or may not have a gun will cause the robber to shoot them, why don't all crimes involving guns end in a shooting? They do not. In fact, most crimes that I read about involving guns don't end in a shooting.

Most of the shooings I hear about are gang related violence and domestic disputes.

Of course, mathamatically, having two people with guns doubles the chances of someone getting shot, even if neither person has an intent to do so. That is simple fact. However, chances don't mean liklihood.

What is the scenario you have in mind?

Frances

Also, I would clearly state my intentions to him. I would say "I'm not going to give you any trouble, here's my stuff."

Frances

"Society" be damned then.

I'm European so I don't want guns. Most Americans I have met rationalise the presence of guns in their culture.

Here is your post-hoc rationalisation of animal instincts. This is one deep rooted cultural belief determined by the social hierarchy you are surrounded by - whether AS or NT.

The reason I don't like the avatar is I just think it really isn't friendly. The OP could be a lovely man (I bet you are ) , but most times I'm never gonna know cos I'll cross the cyber street as celebrating guns seems dodgy and having an avatar pointing one at me, well to be honest, it says Deliverance to me.
I worked in South Carolina and Virginia on some big projects, visiting many times, and guns scare the crap out of me. I still dream about them - plumbers with guns WTF????

So, if a person is a European, then on that basis they don't want guns. If true the contrapositive would also be true: if a person wants guns, then they aren't a European. What then of Europeans who do want guns, such as the criminals who don't care about the arbitrary nature of human law or morality whatsoever? Does it matter to them? What of Europeans prior to the mid to late 20th century who didn't care about all the white washed stuff treating weapons as intrinsically evil but only as instruments which can be used for either good or evil?

I am fairly good shot, but I don't care for weapons. I would own a rifle, but I really do not like hand guns.

Speak for yourself. I'd like to think that I'm more rational than someone who is dumb enough to hold up a person for a bit of cash. And who says the victim is the one getting murdered? If the victim is forced to draw his gun, and the robber dies, yes it escalated into murder, but so what?[/quote]



Christ on a stick, you're getting your facts from movies now? What you're describing is a takeover bank robbery, which are very rare. Most bank robberies are done by a single robber passing a note to the clerk and wanting to attract as little attention as possible.

No you misunderstood. I'm saying that in the context of the long chat between Fraac (a Brit) and OliveOilMom (an American), each trying to be rational they are doomed. Each is managing one of the most civilised chats I have ever stumbled upon on this subject. However its still doomed, the mismatch is intractable. Because however rational each of them thinks they are being, its cultural and these are post hoc rationalisations of what you grew up believing. Arguments just confirm biases. We may as well go back in time 1 hour for all the difference they can make on each others positions on this subject. Yet on another hundred subjectx they could learn from each other. You wont listen or understand my feelings about guns, you cant hear me and I cant hear you. And yet on many other things we have a chance of learning.

I'm not afraid of guns, and yes, I've had one pointed at me.

I do, however, completely despise the idea of their existence.

I am a fan of doing things the hard way. Guns are way too easy. Someone once put a Glock in my hands and asked me to shoot at a barrel that was 200 yards away. Fired 5 shots. Went up there, they were all within a centimeter of each other. First time holding a pistol. What a bunch of crap. No skill involved. In fact, the more you dissociate from the consequences, the better shot you are.

I'm sorry, but that's just makes it too easy to kill someone. The individual is too removed from the consequence. Too convenient. I guess I feel the same way about guns as I do about people eating at McDonald's: disgusted.

Yes, you think you're smarter, stronger and more in control. He thinks he's smarter, stronger and more in control. That's why neither of you should have guns.

Turns out I'm a seriously good at hitting what I aimed at too (the one time someone came and tried to teach me) I was momentarily very pleased to be so precise but I really dislike them, I just don't get the fun.

I agree.

I'm not trying to change his point of view. It's a valid opinion. I'm just enjoying the discussion.

Frances