Attraction v. Effort

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Women of WrongPlanet,

This topic seems to come up a lot in conversations with other men: "How much effort do women really put into being attractive to men?" Not just looks, but attitude, behavior, and education, as well.

So, I'm going to post this poll, and then back out of the forum to watch the results (I did click "Other" just to be able to see the results). Please discuss this topic among yourselves.

Thank you,

Fnord

(PS: @Men: Let's all just sit back and see what the women have to say, okay? No "Fat Jokes" or other trolling, please. Thank you.)

That makes it sounds like all women venture out thinking "hmm...how many can I lure into my web today?" If someone is having a night out and is looking for positive attention, women might put on a little more makeup and wear a little less. Education is a surprising appearance to the list because educating yourself is a means of self improvement, not man catching enticement skills. Women in the past would attend further education to land themselves a "catch", but our options have widened to a point that finding a husband is not a requirement for social status or a fulfilling life. This isn't dismissive of men, but a recognition that pairing off is ultimately a choice and not an all consuming one.

Other.
I try to be presentable, but I'm not looking for a mate at all right now.
The presumption that everyone is a sex maniac and that it's
the motive behind everything is disturbing and insulting.

Major, I don't think it's just women looking for men. An observation that used to make me shake my head in wonder was it seemed half the world was trying to get out of a relationship and the other half was trying to get into one. While this stark observation probably had the effect of making me feel good while I was dateless, there is some truth in it. Most people want to be in some kind of romantic relationship in my experience--and many would prefer a bad relationship over no relationship at all.

As far as college goes, I'm thinking back to the thread with the girl who was attracting convicts. A woman having a degree is one more feather in her cap when it comes to attracting a better sort of man. Of course, the same is even more true for men seeking to attract the better sort of woman. I've known a lot of girls who wouldn't consider a man who wasn't well educated and already securely in professional employment. And today I can offer my own experiences: It is far easier for me to attract women now than when I was going to school and didn't have much of a job.

True, but I don't think either sex is acquiring their education solely for mating purposes. I believe it's more about shared values- a person who values education is going to attract that similarity in a mate. It's true that people want romantic relationships/partnerships, but we can find them without compromising or misrepresenting who we are as individuals to get them. If someone does misrepresent themselves to "catch" someone, then they're building on a cracked foundation and it's not going to last.

You're asking autistic women here, who are notorious for not really giving a flying crap about how they appear to other people. Your results are going to be skewed as they're not a representative sample of all women, just aspies.

For what it is worth, I've totally stopped caring how I appear to men-- I don't live my life for men, I live it for myself, and that includes how I choose to look. I could not care less about what men think of me or what I do with myself.

Major, one last thought on this. I think what both of us are talking about in terms of values is sociological--or class-based. Let me give you an example:

I work in public libraries. Until about fourteen years ago, I worked in College Station, Texas, where many of the people I served were college faculty, their children, or the college students (even though they had a much finer library on campus). There a regular feature of the library in the evenings was parents taking their children down to the library and watching them study. For them, education was the sine qua non. Around testing time in the local schools, the library would become as busy as any night club, and sometimes replete with the same romantic intrigue. It was fascinating to watch it all play out.

Now, I run a public library in a very rural part of Texas where the biggest industries are agriculture, making toilets, and the paints and coatings that go on traffic signs. In my fourteen years working in this blue collar town, I have yet to see parents sitting in the library to see that their children do their homework excepting home-schooled children. Most people come to my library to check out the latest mystery or romance novels, or to get on computers to play games or check their email.

What I am describing is the "higher" and "lower" class values in action, and , of course, romance is part and parcel of both classes. The "higher" classes are higher in large part because of the way they value education. The reason I'm bringing this up is that I think NT's understand this naturally whereas this is frequently not the case for we aspies.

That's a good point. I hate the designation of "high" and "low" class based on their monetary earnings, but I recognize that it's the going benchmark. Unfortunately, in a working class or rural setting, parents may not always be able to focus on hovering over their children and their studies because they're trying to keep the roof over their head. That's probably OT though.
Just to sum up, I don't believe women put nearly the amount of effort into attracting men as seem to be believed. There are some women that hinge their entire self-image on turning heads, but I find them a small minority.

Major, sociological class structure has always been more about values than money. For example, a retired philosophy professor will be firmly middle class even if he's struggling financially. A licensed plumber will always be blue collar even if he makes a great deal of money. To paraphrase on Kipling, the bowling alley is the bowling alley, and the country club is the country club, and never the twain shall meet.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that as aspies, we already have difficulties understanding people. Since we are more socialized into our respective classes than we frequently realize, I think we will actually do better in romance if we seek out those with similar values. There is simply less room for misunderstanding and confusion. Of course, there are exceptions.

As far as women being indifferent to relationships--and, perish the thought, marriage--it must be radically different where you live. Here in Texas, most women want to be married, or at least in a committed relationship. And where I live now, if they don't go to college--which means they likely won't come back--they usually marry right out of high school.

There are quite a few examples of that, but most of the time they're divorced (sometimes from husband#2) by the time they hit their thirties. The majority of the people I interact on a more personal level have never been married at all though.

Personally, I really don't care if men (or women) find me attractive. Unless 'you' can like me, care about me, respect me and love me for the person I am on the inside, I'm not interested.

So I don't really do makeup (once every two or three months does not quite count in my book).
I can't walk in heels, but I must admit that I do like them, so I have a few pairs that just sit in my closet looking pretty.
I wear clothes I find comfortable and pretty, not what anyone else might find attractive. Mostly jeans and T-shirts. In the summer I may wear a skirt once in a while, but mostly I will wear linen or cotton pants and a loose blouse or tunic.
My hair I cut myself every few months, it's generally in braids because I hate hair in my face, and I just can't convince myself that fussing about it with curlers/flat-irons/gels/waxes/sprays/etc is worth the time and effort. I brush it, I braid it and I go do whatever I am supposed to do.

As to posters and their discussion about higher/lower class... Personally I find a man/woman whom I can have real convestations with, much more interesting than a person with a PhD in gaellic litterature who can't entertain my mind and be entertained by me. I know high school drop outs that are super interesting and I have met PhD's who are not. It's not about 'class', it's about being socially compatible.

I'm not sure if the None at all option is the right one for me or not - I put effort into myself, for me. And to not be offensive to society. I think the only area where I put in effort to be attractive to men is in my behaviour when I'm actively flirting with a man, and that's really just making sure I'm flirting and not being dismissive. Everything else is just me trying to be me as best I can and, sure, it would be nice if someone special found my qualities attractive.

I don't put in any effort specifically because I think it would be attractive to a man to be a certain way. But coincidentally (and naturally), some of the things that I put effort into are also things that some men find attractive (e.g. getting fit, being friendly, being educated).

The effort I put into things is for nobody else other than myself.
That really goes for everything - my hobbies, my education, my attitude and my looks.

I probably do pay more attention to my looks and my body than most women do if you discount make up - living with an autoimmune disease really does teach you to take good care of yourself and your health from the inside out - it's something most people don't understand until they truly know what it's like to be sick. And that really does mean everything, food, physical activities you enjoy, making the best out of what you've go to work with.

I don't have time to worry about what anybody else thinks - this is my life and I'm going to live it the way that makes me happy. Even if I am going out on a first date with a guy, I don't usually even make an effort any more than I would when going to work or out with friends in terms of looks. It's unnecessary to make an effort for someone I don't know and who I don't even know if I like, especially when I know I look decent and presentable in the first place. If I decide I do like a guy and I know he likes me back - that is the point at which I may start making an effort to look good for him (mind you, they don't usually care anyway overtly, so it becomes kind of a moot point ).

There have been plenty of nights when I have gone out after doing the bare minimum physically - ballet flats, jeans and a nice clubbing top, eye liner and lip gloss - and had people all over me like crazy just because of my attitude that night (e.g. last Friday, more than 20, even I was shocked). Also nights when I've gotten really done up physically but been in a bad mood or overloaded and had trouble getting dances, apart from people who already know me (which is very rare for me).

I've found that my attitude and personality have the most bearing on whether or not men are attracted to me - being open, happy and outgoing and being willing to enjoy yourself freely seem to be much more attractive than anything you could possibly put on yourself. Both are things that I cultivate within reason for me though, not for them. Hobbies and education do have an impact, at least if they actively see you doing the said hobbies or putting the education to use. But at least in my experience, men are a lot less picky about looks than most men, and even most women seem to think they are. They seem to appreciate the natural look where you can be ready in 5-15 minutes and look decent than anything else.

Not once have I walked out of the house intending to attract men as a gender.

I never try to attract men. I don't want to attract male attention, I find it mostly scary and degrading. I work out, make sure I look presentable, and eat right, but only to make myself happy and healthy.

I don't do much to make myself attractive, it's not worth the time and effort. The amount of makeup I am wearing in my avatar only happens a few times a year, and is only for photographs like this one.

I try to wear clothes that flatter my body, jewelry. and will sometimes wear a little mascara and lipgloss (tho I usually just go w/ chapstick).

If I'm going on a date or to a social event or to a place where there will be people who I know are judgmental and/or shallow, I will try to add some eyeliner and a bit of shadow if I have time. I usually don't because those things take me longer than they do for other people. Try doing your eyeliner when your hand is shaking and you can't see the line of your eye and it's blinking due to the remnants of a tic.

Because of my issues doing makeup, I try to make my hair look good to make up for it. (Heh, "make up" for it) I am not good at doing styles, so I take care not to break my hair when brushing and to use conditioner. I always blowdry my hair on low and never use the "hot" setting. Because of this, and the length and thickness of my hair, I rarely blowdry unless I have hours to prepare to leave the house and I have the stamina to raise my arm that long.

I look overdone in the amounts of makeup that people wear everyday. Idk if I apply wrong or if it's because I have naturally prominent features.

I don't put any effort at all into it. I'm not interested in having sex or dating.