Why do women love abusive men

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Well, I suppose that once you've finished checking "Single", "Has job", "Owns car", "Has own place", "No prison record", "Good credit", "Non-smoker", "Able-bodied", "Good grooming", "Good hygiene", and "Well dressed" off your list, it takes getting to know him for a while before you can check "Patient", "Kind", and "Loving" off your list as well.

What a stereotypical remark to make, don't make assumptions and class all women as being the same.

When I said good men are hard to come by, I meant men that are genuine and kind.

Car, home that isn't relevant .

Don't judge people by other people standards.

sadly, I agree...if a girl has not been made to feel worthy growing up, but instead had someone putting them down constantly while later claiming to love them, they see that as normal...

I can't talk for ALL daughters who had abusive fathers. I am only talking for myself.

My so-called "father" was emotionally, verbally and even physically very very abusive towards me. He was / is mentally ill, and has some sort of a personality disorder. Not my problem anymore as he has been cut off since March of 2014.

As a young adult (and even now - to some extent), I was very insecure, very confused, and I thought that verbal abuse and "occasional" physical abuse (a slap here, a slap there, hair pulled now and then) was NORMAL / natural. After all, hadn't my own "father" done these things to me - even when I was an adult ? I agree that my paternal unit was probably an extreme case, but I ended up "normalizing" abuse and developing a very warped sense of what "love" is, and how people demonstrate "love".

It took me a long time and lots of counseling to understand that my mother's sperm donor was an a**hole who - had I been guided differently and therefore pressed any charges - would have spent a nice long stint in prison for various criminal actions, including one incident of aggravated assault in the late 90s, against me. What taught me that love does not involve verbal or physical assaults was counseling. Long years of counseling, long years of support and finally really seeing how other father-daughter, boyfriend-girlfriend and husband-wife duos got along / treated each other. I guess I was in denial for a long time about just how evil the man who contributed to my gene pool was, but until I willingly came out of that denial, willingly sought counseling, and repeatedly reassured myself that as I didn't pick this @sshole to father me - my mother did - that this "relationship" was not my fault, I was doomed to attract guys not much different from my mother's sperm donor.

This, unfortunately, is actually backed by some credible research that shows that women who have had traumatic / abusive early relationships with the males in their life (a father or a step-father or another "father figure") are bound to be attracted to similar personality types in their romantic ventures as young adults. It does not mean that women are "stupid", it is just that your concept or notions of a "relationship" is unfortunately shaped when you are still fairly young. You learn about relationships in those first impressionable years of life, and it takes a lot of time, effort and energy to undo those old patterns and impressions. I still emotionally - now in middle-age - cannot resolve that my relationship with an abusive jerk was very atypical and extreme, even though I now know - logically - that it was.

This is also how abuse perpetuates across generations. Grandma married a man who is just as much a jerk as Great-grand-papa was. Mum then marries a man just like Grand-papa. Unless I consciously try to break the pattern, the odds are that I will be attracted to men who are "@ssholes" from start-to-finish.

So daughters of abusive men are not "doomed to love abusive men", but daughters of abusive men DO have to work 10 times harder than daughters of loving fathers to break the cycle and find someone the antithesis of their mothers' sperm donors.

This is the same checklist I used during my single years; and I was not referred to "all" women.

I have to agree on that; most of the good ones - men and women - are already in committed relationships, and are therefore unavailable.

Does that mean that you would date a good man even if he was homeless and had to walk wherever he went? Really?

I don't; I judge them by mine. I've applied all of those check-points to women when I was single.

Really, the lower a person's standards, the less likely that the person will end up in a committed relationship with someone who is both "good" and "kind".

I haven't read the whole thread so this may have been already mentioned, but, in addition to reasons already posted, there is also the phenomenon of oxytocin bonding. It's the "in love" chemical that we produce in our brains for both pair-bonding and child rearing, even if neither of those things are actually quite the situation.

Humans produce oxytocin when just having given birth, it's an important chemical "trick" to make you love your baby and connect to it sufficiently to feel tied to it, want to stay with it, and thus raise it. It's a survival chemical so that we don't just go "Ew, poops and screams, lets leave it under the next tree."

Oxytocin is also what's really happening when we believe we are "falling in love" with someone. It can release upon orgasm too. Again it goes back to a chemical trickery meant to make us pair-bond with a sexual partner long enough and closely enough for there to be double the people raising offspring and therefore giving that offspring the best chance at protection and survival.

This is ancient stuff, but in the present day and age it can mess up our lives. We can "pair bond" to the wrong person, sometimes before they even start acting up on us. But by then, it's too late and you're stuck with this stupid biological chemical literally still circulating around your brain and body, making you think you love him no matter what.

So that even after the person starts being an abusive sh!thead, you still "think you lurve him" (or her) -- and of course then proceed to rationalize all the other stuff "If I could just fix him with my love" etc). You still feel such a love for that person that you can't break free even though intellectually you know full well a hundred reasons why you should.

I read something somewhere that said it actually takes a certain amount of time for your brain and body to literally let the oxytocin die away and stop circulating "for" that person who caused you to produce it. It's like alcohol staying in your system for even after you're sober. You have to let it dissipate. Only then will a person realize "Oh my god, that guy really is a total sh!t and I should never have thought I loved him."

Oxytocin bonding. It's a troublemaker in the wrong situation.

Lovely post, BirdInFlight. Do I have your permission to copy this to my Facebook page - with credit to you, of course ?

As I read through your post, I wondered what role oxytocin plays in online relationships ? The ones that start and stay entirely online with no physical interaction or contact whatsoever ? Online "relationships" (usually deep emotional affairs) can be just as devastating - sometimes more so - than physical relationships, when they end (if ever). How do people "pair bond", knowing fully well that the relationship would never work out in real life - either because of the sheer geographical distance between them or because of their individual life situations / circumstances ?

BTW, oxytocin's role in social deficits in children with autism is also being researched by Stanford University. Some parents who "do bio-med" are liberally spraying their kids with oxytocin nasal sprays in hopes that it will make them "more social". I hate being the harbinger of bad news (the messenger always gets shot, aye ?) but I don't think that that is a very good idea. What do you think of this, too ?

Would love your feedback on both scenarios, thanks.

Hi HisMom, and thank you for the compliment -- although, I'm not enough of an expert for my post to be good enough for anyone to re-post somewhere, hahahaha! You may if you wish, although I'm embarrassed, as I'm really only speaking from things I've read about all this, and it's not something I have an education in or anything.

I also don't know about online relationships -- I'm only guessing, but I suppose emotional closeness simply via word communication is obviously entirely possible as people do experience this, and if one feels an emotional connection, oxytocin must presumably be part of that response. From my understanding, any emotion of repeated enjoyment and positive emotional gain from an interaction with somebody, can probably be responsible for giving rise to an oxytocin reaction and bond-forming.

Again this is only stuff I'm guessing, extrapolating out of things I've read about it. I'll bet if you do a search for scholarly articles on oxytocin you would get better information than I can give; it's a very interesting bit of human biology.

I've heard about the speculation regarding oxytocin and autism, something about saying people on the autism spectrum don't have the ability to produce it? Or not as much as NTs? I'm not well informed about it. I've been diagnosed ASD yet I've experienced oxytocin bonding with both humans (intimate partners/romances) and also beloved pets, so I have to wonder about this idea that those with autism don't have enough oxytocin; there are people all over WP who deeply love their pets, spouses, and other important people.

I also just found this article refuting that children with autism lack it, which is interesting:
"Oxytocin isn't lacking in children with autism, researchers say"

It's not something I've looked into much but there seems to be arguments on both sides about this one. Personally I've felt that I myself maybe have had too much, at times!

My pheromones must be oxytocin-inhibiting then. I should patent myself. Be rich.


Seriously though, responding to OP's necro'd thread... from what I've observed having helped a long time friend get out of more than one abusive relationship and knowing her family background I do believe it is mainly (not always) caused by the person's upbringing. When a child grows in an abusive household, be it physical or emotional (or both as often is the case) be it to herself or watching her mother go through it, they grow with the mindset that this is acceptable despite the fact that consciously they know it is not. It is a sort of coping mechanism left over from childhood. The 'daddy issues' is a real phenomenon as girls do grow up identifying 'how a man should be' from their father figures..and likewise how 'a woman should be'.

In my friend's case she came from a household of both emotional and physical abuse towards the mother who in turn was rather cold to her daughter growing up.... and only later did I learn it was because the mother too was the product of such an environment growing up herself. Her boyfriends during middle and high school were all sick SOBs that just used her body and the one she 'loved' the most and stayed with the longest actively abused her physically and emotionally to the point where she had no self esteem and was cutting/attempting suicide.

It took many months to help her break away from that guy (starting her university years ) and a few years more to see her finally be happy and with guys that treated her right. Having lived through all that, I do know her kinks and preferences still include the guy being abusive towards her... which I guess is alright as long as the guy she's with does it to please her not to abuse her... but still, its an interesting insight into just how deep childhood issues affect people their entire lives even after they 'break away' from all that abuse.

So yes, I do think women love abusive men because of that for the most part.

The "father" thing isn't always the reason though -- the variety of reasons posted by various people in the thread show how many reasons there can be, and it's not always due to only one or even all the factors.

It's kind of like when people think everyone on the autism spectrum is the same and exhibits autism in the same way as the next, which we know is not true.

Similarly, every woman who stays too long with an abusive partner is not doing that for the exact same reasons the next woman is doing it.

The father thing is only one possible reason but it's not present in every case.

My father wasn't abusive or neglectful by any description, deeply respected my mother and was a decent man, yet my sister married an abuser and I too wound up in a bad relationship. Each of these men were not like my dad. For me I think I had self esteem issues arising more from my unique problems not being addressed correctly or fully. The guy who abused me had none of dad's personality traits, good or bad. I actually never dated or married men who shared anything in common with my father -- quite the opposite. In temperament or even capability.

I fell in love with people who were good AT FIRST and the abuse crept in, by then it's too late for one reason or another to disentangle easily -- I obviously did in the end. But people don't always "choose" someone they think is going to be this way.

Abuse doesn't announce itself on the first or even the tenth date, you know.

People don't always marry someone just like their father -- my father didn't abuse me or treat me the way I was abused later in a relationship.

It CAN BE one of the many reasons, but to say it's a "main reason" or somehow in some way mostly the case is bull s**t. There are way more complicated reasons and it's different for each woman, way more complex than just "dad was abusive so it's all I know." Not in my case it wasn't.

Last edited by BirdInFlight on 23 Oct 2015, 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, IF the evolutionary purpose served by oxytocin is to promote "love" or positive emotions about another person, then it makes sense that an e-relationship, characterized by strong emotional interactions and positive emotional enjoyment of the other's e-company, even with no physical contact, would be stronger than a "relationship" based purely on physical attraction

Just out of curiosity - and because I can't seem to find this information online - what is the half-life of oxytocin ? How long after communications cease would you think that a pair is not "bonded" anymore ?



Yep... I have actually been talking to Dr. Karen Parker, and my son will probably be enrolled in their clinical trials next year. The hypothesis is that children with autism or with autistic-like traits have lower levels of oxytocin in their CSF (and not necessarily in other parts of the brain) than controls (typically developing children). This necessitates a lumbar puncture (which involves anesthesia and possible further depletion of carnitine levels in my son - who is vegetarian to begin with), so I am hesitating. I have been advised on multiple "bio-med" forums to "shoot him up with oxytocin" but I hesitate even more to do that, for obvious reasons.

This is all interesting, and here's the bottom-line. Women who have "pair bonded" with @ssholes can now take comfort in the fact that it's not them. It's not even their "daddy issues". It's just that damned chemical in their brains !

It blew my mind when I was in my early 20s and living with my then girlfriend who had just gotten divorced from her husband who she had been with since high school - one night after coming home from work (I was the only one working and paying our rent and bills) she told me that she'd rather be with her ex and get beat every day than stay with me as it was "boring" since all of my money went to house and feed us and we couldn't afford to go out. This man beat her, raped her on several occasions, and even paid some guys to assault her and she eventually went back with him. Since then I have been involved with several women who had past abusive relationships and it seems they all correlate violence with love - not sure if this stems from what they witnessed in their homes growing-up but it is very disturbing to have a woman tell you she honestly doesn't know how to react to say a dozen roses or poetry written for her but a few closed-fist blows to the face assures her you love her.

She might have had some undiagnosed mental illness, Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

You dodged a bullet with that one. Thank your stars there !

I didn't read through the whole thread, but the OP's question depends a lot on what is meant by "love." Probably a lot of different meanings have already been discussed.

But just taking it at face value, love simply meaning love...I'd say if you love someone, it's because you are a loving person. It means you are capable of love. And if the other person is very abusive, they may not be capable of loving you back the same way. It doesn't mean that it's wrong to love them, or that you have to stop. You can walk away from it and still have love in your heart for that person.

To me the deeper question is why don't people love themselves more than the abuser, and love themselves enough to walk away from abuse, or stand up to it, or otherwise stop it.

I'd say it's largely because abuse is so pervasive in society that it just seems like normal behavior, at least until it really starts to hurt. It's like sitting in a pot of water with the heat slowly turning up. It feels okay at first, maybe it feels good, and you don't notice at what point it starts burning you.

There are lots of smaller abuses people put up with everyday, and if you trace them back to their source, they actually start with power imbalances at the top of society. It all trickles down and creates an environment where the majority of people feel disempowered, frustrated, and intimidated on some level. People take that out on each other in different ways, and some are more blatantly abusive than others. But a lot of the behavior is fundamentally abusive, because it's rooted in the feeling of powerlessness.

In an ideal society, people would feel fully empowered to walk away from ANYTHING that is abusive, hurtful, or just plain disrespectful on any level. If you can imagine a world like that...then realize just how completely different it would be from the world we live in. Each person has their own complex set of reasons why they feel they have to do certain things, not just to survive but to hopefully find some sort of happiness or satisfaction in life. And everything is connected, so it's not always easy to just walk away from something. The individual reasons why people might end up in abusive relationships are probably as varied and unique as their thumbprints.

But then imagine in the opposite direction, living in a culture that is phenomenally oppressive to women - I won't name any that exist currently, but think of the worst things that come to mind...ie. 8 year olds being sold into marriage, or women who are raped being put to death for adultery. Then picture it even more extreme, so that every single relationship and every marriage within that society is undeniably enslaving and abusive to the female and there is quite literally no remote possibility of escape. Once a society like this is set in motion, how much do each individual's reasons for going along with this really matter?

What I am getting at here is, when you are asking why people do what they do in relation to being abused, it can be a very slippery slope into victim blaming. Abuse happens because people feel powerless - both the abuser and the abused feel powerless.

Love is powerful. Feeling love, feeling loved, giving love, receiving love, withholding love, and rejecting love, all evoke different feelings of power and powerlessness - usually both at the same time. If abuse is a power struggle, and love is a potent evocateur of power, it's completely natural to love an abuser.

So again the more pertinent question for me would be about finding that balance of love and power within myself, to love myself enough to empower myself to say no to anything that feels abusive or dishonors me.

It sounds simple, but it's not easy to do in practice.

I was in a emotionally abusive relationship. I was never abused as a child because I grew up in a happy home and had loving parents but yet I had somehow got in the hands of the wrong guy. He even showed red flags from the beginning and I didn't see them. For one he really took an interest in me and was so quick to come and see me and he also read through my post history here because he wanted to know more about me and someone online told me this was very creepy behavior. But because this forum is public, what is wrong with reading posts online by someone? He also wanted a relationship fast too and told me we would work things out if things don't go well. He was also in a formally abusive relationship so his ex was playing games in court and trying to keep their son from him and she had already kept her daughters from him because she wouldn't let them talk to him or even see him. He was fighting hard in court to get custody of his son and her daughters and she had screwed him over with things. He was always the victim. But almost right away he started to tell me negative things about me like telling me he thinks I have some low functioning autism in me. Then he was convincing me I was like a eight year old or like a five year old.

I thought I could prove him wrong, I thought I cold help him and thought he would get over his problems after I reassure him and tell him. Like fnord said, I was a martyr and I like had white knight syndrome. I felt I brought this upon myself because I was naive to think he will change and get better after I tell him things. But the harsh truth is, only they can help themselves. You cannot always help someone.

There were lot of things that he did in the relationship and it was getting worse and worse to a point where I was crying and then wanting to leave him and then had the last straw and decided to break up with him.

I also read about covert narcissism and he fits the profile of it. But damn how did I get in a relationship with him when I had grown up in a healthy family? I wanted a relationship, I didn't want to be alone, there were things he told me like he would get me anything and reassured me he would never expect a woman to pay for a thing when I expressed my concern about me using him and the way he liked me and couldn't stop thinking about me and the way he made me feel special. I had no idea these were red flags of an abuser. They will shower women with gifts or taking them out, they will offer them things like he told me he would fix my car, they want to know everything about you and are so quick to meet you, they also have a bunch of "oh poor me" stories because they are always a victim of something, these men will prey on certain women so I realize it wasn't my fault and other women have made this mistake too because the guy is so charming. But the only thing different is how the abuse started almost immediately and then it got worse after I moved in with him. But I didn't last long with him and I see it as a good thing that he ghosted on me because at least he let me go. Some abusers do let their victims go. Some also do no contact and not bother their victims. Some others will still harass them and do a smear campaign against them so I wonder if anything he told me about his ex were lies because some abusers will tell you they were abused by their ex and then it turns out it was all a big lie. But I will never know. But I sometimes wonder if I am the "abuser" he has told to his new girlfriend and what things he has said about me but I will never know. I have no contact with anyone who knows him so he couldn't do a smear campaign anyway and it wouldn't have affected me and my family was on my side anyway so no way would he have been able to convince them if he tried. Instead my parents didn't like him and didn't believe anything he said and I thought then they were being judgmental and misunderstanding him but I realize their judgments were correct. I even told my mom he wasn't abusing me when she told me she was scared he was. Back then I didn't even know there were different kinds of abuse. I thought abuse was being threatened and smacked and beaten and things being thrown at you and broken. This is also another reason why women stay in abusive relationships, they don't even know they are being abused which is why I think we must learn red flags before entering a relationships and when we start dating.

I know women can be abusers too and men can also be victims of abuse.

Exactly. And, unfortunately, it sometimes has NOTHING to do with self-esteem or loving oneself more than loving the other. Sometimes, it is just social norms -- for instance, I was under my abusive paternal unit's thumb until I married. He could (and did) abuse me, and even when I talked about it to my relatives and friends, no one thought that his abuse of me was a "big deal" because, after all, that was my "father", and daughters "belonged" to their fathers !

Other times, it is financial. For example, consider Anna Duggar. The poor girl has no real education, having graduated from her "homeschool" and then immediately marrying Josh Duggar. She has 4 kids, no education, ZERO work experience (aside from having briefly run a used car lot in AR with Josh) and he has been shown up as a pervert and a deviant. People are urging her to leave, but I wonder where she will go ? Her siblings - who are vociferously encouraging her to leave - may support her NOW, but probably will not "take care of her" for the rest of her life ! The only jobs she could possibly qualify for are minimal wage jobs - how will she be able to afford rent, groceries, a car and daycare for 4 kids on such a small income ?

I am sure that she - like any other woman in similar circumstances - is hurt, angry and heart-broken that the man that she married turned out to be a low-down cheat, but where can she go and how will she survive ?

She is just one example of the thousands of women who are caught / trapped in abusive marriages and relationships, and who stay on despite wanting to leave because of financial challenges.

Money does make the world go around.

Power imbalances in relationship - as you so rightly point out - do force people to stay on in situations that they otherwise would not stand for a second.