AS Women and Relationships

Post Reply New Topic

I wish I could take a break from Wrong Planet ...

*ponders this topic* Although I'm very romantically attracted to men, I've never attempted a relationship, for several reasons.

Firstly, I'm asexual, and the prospect that he would almost certainly, sooner or later, want sex would make things very difficult. It's a curious asexuality, because the 'disgusted' feel about sex is purely confined to the image of myself having sex or being looked at sexually - his sexuality would be of no worry to me at all, even mentally/vicariously enjoyable. If he wanted to do something such as be touched and kissed while he brought himself off, that would actually be fine when I got used to it. But I suspect that for most men, just activity such as that wouldn't be sufficient.

Secondly, I have a great need for personal space, both physically and mentally. I need large parts of my life where I can be totally alone and know that no-one will intrude. For about a third of the time these days, I'd say, I feel lonely and find myself thinking it would be nice to have someone there. But then for the other two thirds, the idea of someone else hanging around me and constantly making social and emotional demands on me fills me with utter horror. No relationship could - or should - function on an, 'I only want you around when I want you' basis, and would make the other person miserable, so it's better that I stay alone and just cope with those lonely times.

Okay, sorry about my last outburst...I was just incredibly irritated and frustrated! I checked in a few days ago, and Wrong Planet was down AGAIN- (always when I am online... ). I am going to keep my posts short for awhile, so I don´t get disappointed if the website goes down again and I lose my post...

I will try to rewrite small bits of my last post which got lost.

I find it interesting that many have had the experience that men expect women to "read their minds". I wonder how many men actually believe that if you can´t read their mind, you don´t really love them? Probably quite a few. Our society seems to be quite taken with the belief that all women should have this automatic empathy. I know many men were distressed because I couldn´t guess what they wanted or expected of me, and, like some of you mentioned, I have also been broken up with for this very reason.

It was also interesting what many of you mentioned about boundaries. I also had a problem with boundaries, almost as if I was not sure what was acceptable for me to expect or ask for. I think this is because we have to learn by doing, and we feel like we´re playing roles so much of the time, so it´s harder to have a sense of self. We´re frantically trying to discover how we´re supposed to be, what´s expected of us and what role we´re trying to play that it´s hard, at the same time, to have any feeling of ego boundaries. (Plus we´re more vulnerable to what people say we "should do"). I felt much more "left alone" in romantic relationships, like I had less guidance from other people and had to figure more of it out my own. In addition, one can´t really learn by watching and copying, because how often do you really see another couple intimately?

Has anyone ever had the experience that men have told them that they didn´t "act right", or didn´t say "what you were supposed to say"? I´ve had that happen a lot. I´ve felt like an actress who didn´t know her lines. It feels like a lot of "play acting" to me, and less genuine than I expected relationships to be. Just curious if anyone else had that experience...

Most of them were too distant to dictate how I should act or what I should say. One who was very close to me did not do this much at all, but another did it often. He'd be more worried about what others thought than about how things were affecting me. For example, I wasn't feeling up to having dinner with his housemates once and needed to rest in bed. When he started harrassing me about it, I tried to leave. While he was forcefully blocking my exit to the outside, all he was concerned about was how rude I was being for snubbing his housemates; there was no concern for my health at all. Even I knew the housemates wouldn't have cared much either way.

I wouldn't and couldn't comply with his acting demands; therefore, it would result in several occasions where he'd use physical force to drag me into social situations. Sometimes I'd gladly enter them due to the relief of getting away from him, though I'd never feign enjoyment if I didn't feel it. I suspect this was something he held against me--that I didn't care what others thought and felt free to do things my way--and deep down he wished he could have that freedom from social expectations.

Sometimes men would expect me to be like everyone else, and when discovering my naivety and lack of guile they'd become very patronizing about things I said and did. I couldn't change the way I presented myself or fake it, so would continue to be harrassed in such ways.

The mind reading and psychological care-taking seems to be the other side of the 'bitchy NT woman' coin. They can be incredibly destructive, but for those that they like they can be a sort of psychic cruch, or at least a teddy bear. Men seem to expect to be mentally 'taken care of' by the female SO in their life 'Oh, you had a bad day? Tell me about it... How could they treat you like that? Don't they know how wonderful/talented/rich/important you are?' etc.

Since most of us see the above-type behavior as disgusting, we don't hit it off as much with guys.

I show a true lack of partnerships in standard "couple" relationships.

I like someone to just "be there" and do the practical things so i can get on with the important business of my work, my internal life and world and my ideas and thinking and reading.
sounds terribly male chauvinist, even moreso coming from a 46 year old woman. But this is the truth. Heaven forbid, i am a SEXIST PIG.

My preferred relationship is one where i am listened to but do not have to listen, and i am able to paint at whim. Which aside from WP at the moment, is most of the time.

the other issue is an open relationship as i have mentioned before. this is my current reality.

And i am told my animal noises and my party-trick mimicry makes up for a lot. the Chameleon Entertainer. female conwoman...that sort of thing.

The prevailing issue on WP seems to be that a fair few people are still scratching around trying to fit in with a world that isn't really tailored to them. It's like a shocking squeeze into an ill-fitting corset.

I say give up on the mainstream ideals and find the self - and be well aware that the Autistic self in all its glory is probably the best and most beautiful way to live and function - well - if you are truly autistic, that is. If you are not... i doubt what i say will make much sense at all and will be viewed derisively and with piqued horror.

It seems to me, i am best on this planet accepting who i am and what i am - a self-driven animal that likes to f**k with all manner of other members of the species, has a semi-mate as well (sensory issues allowing,) who just wants one or another there for hunting trips and a bit of safety. I want the basics covered, and i am happiest when i morph into the tree or the rock or the sky or the darkness of the night, as happens thanks to my heightened sensory processing. Where does the "I" end? The extension of "self" into the world - the fusion with all things is available to autistics, i believe. Especially those with sensory issues. Why is it i feel someone from 15 -20 feet away? Why do we experience space and time so very differently when we hyperfocus?
So as a result, I end up outside of space/time and that is the funnest place to be.

All those people meditating and meditating to get a snippet of what we are born with. And all those young autistics plied up on antidepressants and other drugs so they can fit in with the mainstream, live tidy lives and go to college, f**k in the missionary position and watch HOUSE and lose a grasp of the autistic potentials that can make them happy and contented. This concerns me.

I came off the anti-d's. from the outside looking in things look weirder. from the inside looking out i am in paradise on earth. i am replete with the autistic ME.

And so i end up fusing best with everything through the act of painting, which is by far and wide THE MOST SEXUALLY SATISFYING RELATIONSHIP i am ever going to have in this lifetime.

by my standards that makes me happy.

By society's standards that makes me a selfish, sexually deviant and f****d up woman,a loser mother, and a freak who has no social conscience and who is probably a satanic worshipping bum with nautical star tattoos on her forearms (yikes..mystical symbolism, more evidence of devil-worship,) so she can remain on a steady and navigable path to the the narcissistic centre of all things. (which happens in this case to be my own intensities, painting practice and the uncompromising adherence to my own way of living and rather oddly beautiful self.)

Better than being AS and bitter.

Or AS and chemically plied. (and ye of little faith, i have seen the light...of the chemical smile..in that darn bathroom mirror. thank god it is gone all gone.)


and of course my point is the best relationship we can have is with ourselves and our special internal world and interests.
and try wherever possible to f**k loudly and with gusto, like an animal.

^ Might try the last line; already do/done the non-medication and living for obsessions.

Yes, the best relationship I am having IS with myself, my internal world and special interests.

I realize that was a misconception about "love" that I had for quite awhile, too. I used to think that I would find a "soulmate" who would magically understand me and be just as interested in my mind and internal world as I was! (I even imagined monologuing to this person, while they hung on my every word). I realize now how silly that all sounds, but I guess all people- from the time they are young and others start preaching to them about relationships- have their own definition and preconceived notions about love.

Of course, there is one entity that listens and is as interested in my thoughts and experiences as I am- God. So, I would say that the best relationships are with myself and God.

Still, I wish I could find situations for sex more often. It has been far too long. I guess I don´t know where, or how to find the right unconventional person for that.

glad you are back Morgana. understand how you feel about WP when it is slow.

re relationships:

i think it is a long shot getting anyone to fully understand how i am. i can lie/rest on the surface of things - as is expected of me in the normal world - a skimmer- and i have learned to some degree how to skim with others too.

Quite honestly the only time i have met like-minded individuals minds - excluding a few incredible/real artists - are the several that i respect and see here on WP.

I think we are miners of sorts - us autistic people.
getting anyone to fully understand is a useless exercise and getting a partner that understands is for me, very unlikely.

the past year, I have sorted through a lot. For 8 years as an autistic woman, i lived in a relationship with a partner and our son. THe couples thing and its expectations nearly killed me.
Everyone has their internal world - all human beings - but for some of us autistics, the internal world takes precedence over the expernal. My art practice is my internal world and there, the acto of painting is about fusing the two, like an animal -- i paint vines = i feel the vines = i become the vines. I become one with all things in the act of painting. that is what my world is about.

When i bring a relationship into that special interests/internal world, my connection to it is dirupted and destroyed on a regular basis. I bought the "coupled ideal" for years. i got told when i got clean that was what it was all about. I realised a few years in, it is hell for me.
Now i graciously accept this fact, do not pine after it and continue on my merry way. HOwever, i am lucky in that i have access to God's own mystery -- which is the one time when most humans get to experience the delights of their animal self. (SEX)
Sex is good for us, it takes many forms and my preference is for fantasty and masturbation OR a partner able to understand the complexities of my relationship with the sexual act.

THe other issue for me with regards to relationships is the singular autstic life WITHIN the coupled relationship. This is how i do relationships. the other person is an object really - there to serve my auto-driven fantasies and ways of being and living. I try to compromise on this approach for my son at times. I CAN pull myself out of the autistic world and feign some shallow adaptation - skimming - the chameleon mimic ---- but the cost is so great in terms of exhaustion and what feels like some kind of post-skim dread...and panic...as if i have had my essence ripped out from me and i have to sweep up all the bloody pieces and sew them together with cat-gut again. I do the latter less and less - because the endgame there is suicide for me.

and so, i accept my self driven world with f*****g on the side. i embrace this. IT is who i am. it is not an excuse for selfishness. it is simply the way i honestly and truly am.

with a patner or with oneself. needs to be loud and animal. very good for the heart.
once a day. will also give you more time on planet earth for your special interest/obsessions.

catweazel would have known this. i feel sure

I've just thought of something I don't think has been mentioned yet.

In traditional counselling settings, there are always certain assumptions about heterosexual relationships.

In one relationship, I was having difficulty in many areas--though the person himself was very good--and I spoke to a couple of counsellors about it, one specialising in couples, because I wanted to do the best for my friend and didn't know how. The assumptions encountered in traditional counselling were:

- That you do have sex
- That you were once or are currently in love
- That you have no relationship problems (or at least very atypical ones) if you are not fighting all the time or having affairs
- That if you are having less/no sex, it's a sign of relationship difficulties
- That if the physical side is as it's always been, there are no problems in that area
- That you are married (they got my name wrong in their records!)
- That you have no secrets to hide (I did; I was having strong feelings for another and doubted I could tell anyone, let alone in front of the partner; I never did get the opportunity to seek advice on that)
- That you intend to be with the same person for life (no; just for the natural duration of the relationship!)

So you spend most of the time trying to explain. Some try to understand, but don't really succeed. And then there are sensory issues (and executive dysfunction)--and trying to explain something that doesn't exist for others--they look at you as though you're an alien. One woman suggested that to relax in the evenings I should take a bath with my partner or have a massage. Those activities would be guaranteed to turn me into a nervous wreck--the thought of being unclothed and wet in view of another ...

I didn't raise gender identity issues; they wouldn't have had a clue. These are very important to me. This is why an AS/autism specialist is a minimum requirement, which I didn't/do not have access to.

I don't know what's wrong with me.

The only few relationships I had never lasted long to really be "relationships".

The guys I was with either thought I was too distant and cold or something else.....

I also don't do well with demands or favors. This has been one of my ongoing troubles with guys as well as friends. It's too hard for me to change most of my stubborn ways automatically.

I'm also confused about the "social rules" in the aspects of relationships. I try not letting it get to me but it can get me downright insecure about ever having a "real" relationship with the opposite sex.

Thank you for reminding me of some of the problems I´ve also had! Yes, they´re worth mentioning.

-"That you intend to be with the same person for life..."

I seem to have a huge problem feeling this feeling of "commitment" or intense "connection". Back when I was doing relationships, I attempted to act "committed", because I knew I was supposed to be feeling that....but deep down inside, I always wondered why I wasn´t feeling that, or what made some people feel that way. For me, relationships feel temporary. (There was one man who I felt sort of a commitment to- well, only sort of- because he understood me better than most. It didn´t last).

For years, not knowing about AS, I read mainstream literature about relationships, hoping to find a solution, or help. In ALL the books, the assumption seems to be that the woman automatically feels a commitment to the man, whereas the man acts distant and has commitment problems. Again, there are very sexist ideas about relationships, so if a woman experiences something a little different, there is absolutely no reading material to go to for help. I felt so lost and alone, and for years I wondered what was "wrong" with me. Having people hassle me about when I was going to "finally find a man" or get married didn´t help the matter either.

Sensory problems- that was another difficulty I had. I guess when I told my boyfriends about certain sensory issues, they couldn´t understand them so they just basically wrote them off. I was often told that I was "uptight", and that I "needed to relax". Again, I wondered what was wrong with me. The worst part was sensory issues due to foreplay. If I mentioned certain preferences I had, or things that bothered me, the men just ignored me, basically- (often after looking at me like I was totally insane), and just went ahead and did what they wanted, with no regard for how I was feeling! It was almost as if they decided they knew already what I "should" like sexually, as opposed to what I really liked. I bet that because men think of themselves as the "keepers of sex" (something I wrote about earlier on this thread)- that they are more likely to disregard a woman in regards to sensory issues than if the tables were turned. In addition, many men just seemed offended if I didn´t enthusiastically enjoy whatever they decided they wanted to do.

Ditto to Morgana and Outlier.
thank god you are around. i relate.

That's similar to many areas with AS, which can then lead to the business of trying to feel what you believe is the correct thing to feel. Then, when others we are supposed to be intimate with are unaware of such fundamental differences, and we cannot grasp them ourselves, we become more cut off (from them and ourselves). People don't think much beyond the mainstream, if at all, and have ideas that are hard to shift. For example, when telling some men and women I don't want marriage and children, they find it bizarre. One person I'd known for years stated that of course I was going to have children because that's what those with my gender want and what they do.




That line sounds familar. I think it translates as "I need you to relax."

Your description of sensory issues and men behaving inconsiderately is also what I had to deal with. Even if unfamiliar with their issue, I'd be very concerned if a man or woman mentioned something. It makes me wonder whether it was because their sexual behaviour was mostly an extension of their masturbatory practices; I haven't read anything on this. Maybe it was a case of attracting certain types.