AS Women and Relationships

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Hi everybody, I´m finally back! I expected to be back sooner, but when I first arrived here I had some kind of "interaction overload"...in other words, after the meetup in France, we had talked so much that my brain was frazzled! I didn´t even have the energy to write a post. But it was wonderful. If anybody is interested, have a look at the "meetup in South Central France" thread. It was totally cool.

Welcome to the discussion Bonny and activebutodd: I found your posts very interesting! Yes, I definitely relate to the being taken advantage of; or of trusting people and just not really knowing what was going on under the surface. I realize I STILL have problems knowing what´s going on under the surface...

My last question was about exhaustion from relationships, and I have a new theory now after meeting up with other Aspies in France. One thing I noticed about that meet was how easy and less stressful it was than other interactions, as we were all on the same wavelength. I guess even in those NT family and friendship relationships where people basically accept me, there are still things about me that those people can never truly understand, so there´s always going to be a little bit of "hiding", justifying or playacting going on. This "playacting" was even more magnified in my romantic relationships! I often felt like an actress who didn´t know her lines. One of the things I learned was that if I was too much myself, I wasn´t loved. And I think the sheer pressure of having to play a role, or hiding things like sensory issues- (but making excuses about them, or trying to control the environment)- was just exhausting. I had gotten so used to doing these things, that I didn´t even really think about it anymore. But now, seeing how easy it is being with like-minded people, I realize even more the energy I need to expend in my daily life. (Put a relationship with an NT on top of this, where the pressures are greatly multiplied, and you have a no-win situation!) No wonder I´m tired all the time... So, basically, I think a great deal of it is the amount of "acting" going on, as well as the mental effort required in figuring out what´s going on, and how to react to that.

Welcome back! I'm glad you had a great time. I think your theory could be correct. Although there may still be effort involved, it is to a lesser extent. I might consider going on such a trip one day. They usually make me ill, but one like that might be better.

welcome back also morgana. I missed your presence. I have enjoyed the photos and am glad to hear you all had a nice time.
I usually get sick too, if i travel.

Maybe it is easier with other ASD people. It seems this is your experience and i am very open to your view here.
I did try connecting via skype with someone with an ASD - but it really was as exhausting as any other people.

I have been invited to speak at the Inaugural Women and Girls and ASD's Conference 2009.
it is the first of its kind, worldwide and I shall be speaking for an hour on my journey as a woman with ASD, along with Tony Attwood and Dr. Michelle Garnett and two other women with ASD's. the second day will be a kind of self-help forum for ASD women and girls. So i will let you know how i fair with it all. It is in August...a while off yet.
I will stay in a hotel and this is HUGE stuff for me to do, as I usually come home sick from anything like this.
The good thing is the venue is the same as another AS talk I went to, so things are a little easier if i am somewhat familiar with the place.

WHen I went up to the AS talk a few months ago, I didn't really talk with other people at all. I just wandered around, stimmed and was completely overwhelmed. I so rarely leave my routine...

Last edited by millie on 09 Jun 2009, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wow, now THAT really does sound amazing! I would be terrified as hell to speak for an hour in front of an audience- (I don´t want to make you scared, sorry); I guess what I´m saying is, we all have different fears and anxieties. Liane Holiday Willie said in her book that she has no problem speaking in front of groups, but this would give me heart palpitations! (I have no problem with traveling and hotels, though; unless they´re bad hotels...) But, wow...that sounds pretty awesome, and to be with Tony Attwood and Isabelle Henault. I wish you luck!

As for the guy you met online, well; that was just one person. All ASD people are different, so don´t judge by this experience alone. It sounds like that was just an unfortunate situation. There are all kinds of people in this world; nice NTs and not so nice, and the same would go for people on the spectrum.

I have no problems with it Morgana - i have done it for many years in my special interest areas. Radio and tv. eccentric motor mouth. I can get a tiny bit nervous, but it is like performing. No usual emotions around it. I have very high verbal acuity - exceptionally so - it is just the way it is with me. So, getting up there and talking about my life and special interests is actually extremely easy - mush the same as Liane Holliday Willey describes. Anyway, we will see how it goes. I have been told some people often think I am "arrogant" or "up myself" but i am not. What it is, is that I do not have the usual editing of what I say or the usual "false modesty" our society requires. I just tell things as I see them and experience them, including things about myself. If anything, it is a consequence of extreme social naivety. A poor ToM also helps, as I am not really in touch with how others perceive what I am saying. But that is ok. I have learned that such candidness and honesty can be refreshing and most people actually CRAVE it.

What is torture for me is a social group. Now THAT is terrifying - a group that has nothing to do with my special interests. I rarely have anything to do with such social groupings.
I have just been reading some Temple Grandin stuff on the net, and I relate to some of what she says about there only being work and special interests and any contact with people is made through these channels.

Yes, this makes sense to me. This is pretty much how it is with me too, at least when I have a choice in the matter.

That should help get professionals to consider female autistics more. It sounds very exciting that you are going to be speaking there! I hope there will be a transcript or recording made available for those of us who cannot attend.

^ yes. I hope so, outlier. I also think we women are actually doing amazingly well at supporting each other in threads like this one that Morgana started.

Eventually I would also like to be a part of an email mentoring program for young ASD girls. I feel many of us who are older could share our experiences via email or the net and help younger girls in a very practical way. Many of us have gone undx'ed for so long and have experienced many pitfalls. I think we could help younger girls to avoid some of the problems we have faced. Before my life is through, i want to be involved in this.

We do need to help the professionals understand us better.

Thinking about old courting processes, and classic books; and how a picture is worth a thousand words.

A touch for me is like a thousand words. And full scale sex is like trying to read a thousand books. It takes complete concentration. And if it's too fast I get left behind on page 3, a subtle ref to Sun newspaper's page three girls, which objectifying approach is all I am capable of, if I can't take the time to read and understand the thousands of "words" which are a few minutes of touching, and may be why sex with someone I care about is so awful, alienating, if can't/don't take it slowly enough, because it reduces both of us to objects. I have had some very exciting objectifying sex, with total strangers. With people I didn't respect, care about. But when it's someone I care about it's like a violence, a dehumanising act, which strips them, ( and me ) of all I loved about them, their mind, etc.

One touch, in Jane Austen, is treated as immense. And that's what it feels like to me. If I get the time, take the time, insist on taking the time, that I need to "read" a touch, feel it, appreciate everything that that one touch says, then I can continue, touch back, say the thousand words in response, and carry on ... and when it works like that it is so achingly beautiful and compelling and absorbing that I can go on for hours and hours, ( in fact I don't want to stop ). But it takes the sort of clarity, and determination, and confidence in oneself, that it takes to insist on only eating certain things when on an exclusion diet, when someone is suggesting that you are imagining things, exaggerating. Which is where it helps if one's partner understands, and appreciates just how sensitive one is.

The "grab-bag" ( good name for it ) approach of modern "mating practices" ( ! ) just led to one failure after another for me; to "bad" sex, ( if not immediately, the next time, or after a few days ). Which is worse than no sex. And like you say, Morgana, it tended to cause the relationship to stop or stagnate, right there, or ( because it, the "fast sex", objectified/stereotyped me and my partner ), conjured up/triggered gender-role-play behaviour which made it difficult for me to be me, and think and speak my real thoughts, to feel my real experience.

.

This sounds totally awesome! I would love to do something like this too. I think it´s great that you want to help young ASD people. I´ve actually been thinking about writing a book about AS women, and the different challenges we go through, as well as the expectations of society. This is just a dim notion in my brain at this point, but who knows...maybe I´ll get around to it someday. As I´ve found so little reading material about AS girls and women- (and you´re right, the professionals don´t know much about us yet)- that I´ve wondered if maybe I need to write that book that doesn´t exist yet.

And thanks for that comment about the thread.

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Morgana, write the book! Please write the boo. Your insights are great, your threads are great, and it is your special interest. so you would have FUN FUN FUN doing it.
I am also working on one too -quietly! (not so quiet now.) Mine is more autobiographical. I have a bit of a ripping yarn to tell.
I think the more books on women with AS the better.

The second day of this conference in Brisbane has a forum running from 9am-midday. the forum will be a group situation i believe, but i am yet to see the program.
I will speak to the organiser about this mentoring by email idea!.
One of the very valuable aspects of falling into 12 step programs was the introduction to the notion of self-help. There is a "sponsor-sponsee" model that means someone who has been clean or sober and has travelled the path before you, can offer some guidance and advice. It operates from the premise that addicts are their own experts and we can do a lot to hep each other - sometimes in conjunction with therapy and sometimes not. The point is it is self- guided, which I believe is very important.

I know to get it started i would need help with the organising. I am magnificent with ideas and motivation, but when it comes to implementing I am at a loss because I cannot cope with groups and too much communication. But if it were at all possible to get help from someone who knows about autism and is also independent and able to assist us in getting it happening - well - i think it gives the mentor esteem and also the mentored. giving is good. We are very caring people but because of our social difficulties and communication and overload problems and the ensuing meltdowns some of us experience, we are perceived as difficult and obstreperous. I think many of us are deeply caring about people and social justice, but struggle with the intensity of face to face communications, and so we are misread. that is why email or written mentoring would be wonderful.

Ouinon, this is incredibly bang-on for me (no pun intended) - only I haven't yet found anyone willing to be patient enough to go slow enough for me to really enjoy it. They've tried, bless 'em, but (most, I hate to generalise) men just don't appreciate that when I say slow, I mean sloooooooooooow. In fact, it's gotten to the point where I've given up, and when a guy is trying to be considerate (but not quite enough) I just hurry him along to get it over with.

How sad is that?!

^ have to have a chuckle.
when i am "intimate" which basically means having sex without emotion as i cannot cope with the intensity, I do not do anything 'face to face" and i think of objects belonging to the person and not their body or the moment. It is a completely self- absorbed and "autistic" experience for me. there is no emotional connection. I have my own feelings, but i do not connect with another in the normal way. there is lust and sexual energy...but not really connection.

I can commiserate with the lack of connection, but at least you get the lust and sexual energy!! !

I think I must fall somewhere in the middle - or maybe even outside of it altogether. I definitely do not feel anything like the emotional connection in sex that seems to be so talked about with NT women - but I also don't get into some kind of "pure sex" state. To be honest, I just kind of detach. Sex is almost like an out of body experience, but not quite.... I'm so awkward physically that I'm constantly thinking, "Dammit, my left arm's done nothing for almost a whole minute. Should I move it? Where should I put it? Ow, okay, that's not comfortable. Hmm. Maybe I should move it a little lower? No.... Oh, crap, what's he doing now? How in the #&*$ am I supposed to move to compensate for this? Wait... am I supposed to move? Frak." It goes on like this, apart from the moments when I remember all kinds of totally non-sex things from "real life": "Oh no, I haven't filed my income tax yet! Nooooooo, we're on our last loo roll! Oh yeah, I promised to call my mum tomorrow."

So not good.

I can only enjoy sex during the week or so my hormones are all geared up to make babies, and then I really enjoy it. I can take a lot more touch than usual. The rest of the month, even if I *want* to have sex, it's hard to impossible. I just can't relax enough to enjoy what my husband is doing.

We've been together 13 years and he's someone who very much wants to please the other person in bed, a very gentle person, and he's learned reams about me and what I like and don't like. He does everything "just right" even when I can't get into sex; it's just me. When he picks up on me not being able to enjoy it, he stops. I don't even have to say anything; I guess after 13 years, he knows by the way I move or don't move or something that it's not working for me. How wonderful is that? Except I feel guilty, but that's something I need to get over, I guess.

Now I'm in my 40s I'm starting to worry about what happens after menopause, when the baby-making hormone dance stops. I am really worried I'll never be able to enjoy sex again. Not so bad for me (without the hormones, I don't even miss sex), but I want my husband to be fulfilled by our relationship, too. And *never* having sex is a pretty big step from "having sex worth waiting for a couple times a month." Gah.

You seem very lucky with your husband, Saja.
Just a thought, and it might not apply: A couples counsellor I once saw mentioned that it can increase desire if the partner (the man in this case) is slightly less accommodating of the other's needs, but this only applies when the partner is already extremely accommodating to the extent he doesn't express his needs and desires. Apparently, him expressing his needs and desires makes the other feel more desired as there's a tension there, rather than a fixed position of comfort and familiarity. It's something to that effect.

In recent times, I sometimes think I am developing a more normal drive and emotions, but I go along most of the time feeling flat, so think I've reached the low end of normal, overall. I don't really understand what's going on; it swings to extremes. Perhaps my natural drive is more normal than I think, but there's a lack of suitable potential triggers, plus alexithymia and other issues. I've never been with someone I've been in love with, so don't know how a physical relationship would pan out with such a person. I suspect it would begin very well, but due to being fundamentally uncomfortable in my own skin and awkward with the physical and emotional, it wouldn't last long before problems would arise. I have noticed that any energy that arises from love, not having an outlet, gets dispersed and tinges other areas of life.